Barry has publicly stated during financial calls that he expects a double digit margin next year. Next question.

I may vote no the first go around. Especially if they try to do anything with the ability to drop, swap and add etc. We'll see. It's not a question of whether we deserve to paid like the legacies based off the fleet and flown pax. I agree with you. We do. I'm not negotiating for the company. I want us to get what we deserve just as much as the next guy/gal. I'm simply saying I don't see it anytime soon based off of the block hours decreasing, low revenue, aircraft sitting, etc. The money for our contract has to come in. They can't afford it right now in my opinion. Another poster said Barry is on record saying double digit profit margins in 2025. I hope they're right. Is that including a new contract? If not, single digit profit margins, maybe. I'd just like to see all of us with a future here. And yes, I get it. If they can't make money after giving us a new contract, or now for that matter, that's a management failure. It's on them. What's going on over at NK can happen here, again...

Barry has been saying that since coming out of COVID in 2021.

My question is, what excuse do you expect him to use on the Q2 2025 earnings call? ATC, Weather, Ground Delay Programs, Overcapacity, Fuel Prices, Inflation, his blood pressure and cholesterol?

Any pilot near the bottom of the seniority list needs to pay attention to the bulleted concept right here. Next time some disgruntled senior dude carps about how he wants Delta pay because he carries more passengers than them (while totally ignoring the fact that we’re carrying a plane full of $19 fares), remember that these folks literally don’t care if we end up like Spirit and you get furloughed because the operation is economically nonviable. This guy right here said the quiet part out loud.

We just reiterated our guidance to a profitable Q4 and an 11% increase in revenue per seat mile over last year.

I dunno. I’m cautiously optimistic with the trend.

The problem is you’re thinking about a contract in today’s terms. While relevant it’s too short sighted. You need to think about the contract in the terms of a deal for the next 5-7 years. Example: Okay so we all agree on a contract with minimal gains because in 2024 we barely made a profit and could barely afford it. Then say 2025-2032 Frontier has 9000% profit margins and then in 2032 they have 0% profit margins and we sign low rates again? Who was the fool in that scenario?

Spirit is also a bad comparison because they have a multitude of problems we don’t have.

That's true. I'm sure no airline goes into negotiations without forecasting 5-7 years down the road. At this point I can be optimistic going forward however I don't have a ton of confidence in them making that kind of money. At least in the short term. I remember a conference call where a question was asked to JD about negotiations with pilot group about the contract early in 2024 and he said something to the effect, they haven't even budgeted for a pilot contract until 2025. So we'll see what this next year brings.

I also recall Barry only budgeting 1/4 of a CASM point. A bit low IMO. Time will tell.

what is the monetary allocation?

Frontier and the other big ULCC have hit a bump in the road, that's true. But we aren't going to permanently settle for the bottom of the industry wages because of a short term low profit period. Frontier has at times been wildly profitable and there's absolutely no reason we can't be again. A shift in the economy could be a huge win for us. The number of people buying expensive tickets on United and Delta frankly seems unsustainable to me. When the economy softens, Frontier will be there for people who've already maxed out their credit cards. But in the meantime, I want to be compensated like the Airbus pilot that I am. And I don't want to hold the rest of the industry down. Don't settle, guys. Frontier can find their way back to solid profits. We have to fight for our careers and the careers of the other non legacy airlines.