2024 base discussion....
11-17-2023 | 06:00 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,764
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From: 1900D CA
I think you're right.
Daniel said he couldn't develop a business case for the plane. He's gone now, but the math isn't gone.
We make more than 50% of our revenue on ancillary fees. We need to shuffle as many people on and off the planes as possible. Long flights mean you can only get 2 groups of pax on each plane per day. If you can do 4 or 5 legs per day you can make a lot more ancillary revenue.
I bet we convert our XLR orders to standard 321NEOs
Daniel said he couldn't develop a business case for the plane. He's gone now, but the math isn't gone.
We make more than 50% of our revenue on ancillary fees. We need to shuffle as many people on and off the planes as possible. Long flights mean you can only get 2 groups of pax on each plane per day. If you can do 4 or 5 legs per day you can make a lot more ancillary revenue.
I bet we convert our XLR orders to standard 321NEOs
11-18-2023 | 03:55 AM
#23
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 755
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Maybe you'll be proven right...but Daniel's math (and his plan to shake down customers for every penny) led to us losing customers and money in one of the most successful/profitable quarters the Big 3 have ever seen. I'd guess his math and ideas about the XLR won't be relevant by the time the orders are ready to deliver.
11-18-2023 | 04:44 AM
#24
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 793
Likes: 64
Maybe you'll be proven right...but Daniel's math (and his plan to shake down customers for every penny) led to us losing customers and money in one of the most successful/profitable quarters the Big 3 have ever seen. I'd guess his math and ideas about the XLR won't be relevant by the time the orders are ready to deliver.
I wouldn't say I really liked DS, but I've had all three in gs at various times (BB, DS, and BL) and he's the only one I didn't feel was full of bs. In fact, I never felt he fit the norm as senior leadership for that reason.
11-18-2023 | 04:48 AM
#25
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Joined: Apr 2023
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AA and EI serve PHL-DUB. AA on a 787 and EI a 321Neo (with 16 lie flats up front). They are both in the OneWorld alliance so they feed each other nicely on either end with connections. F9 would have a difficult time siphoning off some of that traffic. PHL-SNN or Cork could work as long as AA doesn't go back into those cities. If F9 is going to do Europe from PHL, they could hit some of the other cities AA abandoned like EDI, MAN, TXL and they could also serve the secondary airoprts in Paris (Orly) and London (Stanstead or Gatwick). But with a 321, they really have to rely on passenger revenue whereas the legacies can load up the widebodies with cargo that is a cash cow. I'm not sure how much weight is left to allow for cargo revenue on a 321 if they also need to load it up with fuel and pax.
11-18-2023 | 04:50 AM
#26
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Joined: Aug 2007
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My gut feeling is that it was Barry's plan, and was implemented despite DS's objections leading eading to his departure fron F9 after being here almost a decade.
I wouldn't say I really liked DS, but I've had all three in gs at various times (BB, DS, and BL) and he's the only one I didn't feel was full of bs. In fact, I never felt he fit the norm as senior leadership for that reason.
I wouldn't say I really liked DS, but I've had all three in gs at various times (BB, DS, and BL) and he's the only one I didn't feel was full of bs. In fact, I never felt he fit the norm as senior leadership for that reason.
11-18-2023 | 05:09 AM
#27
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 44
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From: FO
AA and EI serve PHL-DUB. AA on a 787 and EI a 321Neo (with 16 lie flats up front). They are both in the OneWorld alliance so they feed each other nicely on either end with connections. F9 would have a difficult time siphoning off some of that traffic. PHL-SNN or Cork could work as long as AA doesn't go back into those cities. If F9 is going to do Europe from PHL, they could hit some of the other cities AA abandoned like EDI, MAN, TXL and they could also serve the secondary airoprts in Paris (Orly) and London (Stanstead or Gatwick). But with a 321, they really have to rely on passenger revenue whereas the legacies can load up the widebodies with cargo that is a cash cow. I'm not sure how much weight is left to allow for cargo revenue on a 321 if they also need to load it up with fuel and pax.
11-18-2023 | 06:43 AM
#28
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Joined: Mar 2021
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If the XLR's are cancelled, that would be a big disappointment. Alot of us got a big boost of motivation when those orders were announced, with the accompanying fanfare.
oh well, fool me once....or something like that....
oh well, fool me once....or something like that....
11-18-2023 | 06:49 AM
#29
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 793
Likes: 64
isn't there a saying in aviation, never believe it until it happens.
11-18-2023 | 07:13 AM
#30
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,011
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This is my assumption as well. I don’t think crossing the Atlantic itself would have made much money but would have allowed our/wizz passengers the opportunity to cross in our network. Leave Mexico on Volaris and 8 stops later you’re in Hungary with Wizz all on one ticket!
I haven’t ruled them out and think it depends.
Is Europe’s travel market still going crazy next summer? If so I think the odds are higher.
Is the public still willing to pay more for premium? Perhaps we do something like JetBlue Mint and those aircraft are configured slightly differently. We may even see a desire to shift all aircraft to something akin to Spirits big front seats.
They are still 3 years out anyway so there no rush to decide just yet. Many things will change.
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