2Q 2025 Earnings Call - Aug 5
08-05-2025 | 02:05 PM
#71
That/It/Thang
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 3,463
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This is like Spirit all over again. I remember Spirit having the “right size” the operation talk a few years ago. More planes coming, but not making money with the planes you have now. First class? Spirit tried various forms of that with this latest rebranding of GoBig.
08-05-2025 | 02:21 PM
#72
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 71
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We lease everything. Please reference page 12 of the 10-Q. It also discussed how we saved money by extending leases.
https://ir.flyfrontier.com/static-fi...e-e05535ce1ac7
Now if you are talking about Spirit? They do own about 20 aircraft but had them for sale for some time.
https://ir.flyfrontier.com/static-fi...e-e05535ce1ac7
Now if you are talking about Spirit? They do own about 20 aircraft but had them for sale for some time.
08-05-2025 | 04:28 PM
#73
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Joined: Nov 2017
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This is like Spirit all over again. I remember Spirit having the “right size” the operation talk a few years ago. More planes coming, but not making money with the planes you have now. First class? Spirit tried various forms of that with this latest rebranding of GoBig.
08-05-2025 | 04:31 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,748
Likes: 98
From: 1900D CA
Yeah we lost a little money. We have tons of money in the bank. We were profitable last year. They expect to be double digit profitable next year.
This your first airline?
08-05-2025 | 05:24 PM
#77
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Joined: Feb 2019
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Was thinking about this today, it’s debatably the smartest thing right now. They’ll continue sale lease back to hedge the losses atleast for Q3, Q4, and Q1. They’ll do funny book math to make it look like a ok loss, or good forecast.
This is all in the hopes of the company making a profit Q1, Q2 next year.
It’s really a Hedge against the immediate term losses. That and between selling older planes they’ll do ok….
I think what people need to realize is at the end of the day Frontier is in an OK position as long as indigo is on board… to management it’s not an airline… its a Hedge fund. As long as it continues to work for Indigo we’ll be puttering along. I just hope all the goodwill and brand value isn’t gone before they decide to sell or divest their shares.
They are absolutely ok in continuing the business as usual.
This is all in the hopes of the company making a profit Q1, Q2 next year.
It’s really a Hedge against the immediate term losses. That and between selling older planes they’ll do ok….
I think what people need to realize is at the end of the day Frontier is in an OK position as long as indigo is on board… to management it’s not an airline… its a Hedge fund. As long as it continues to work for Indigo we’ll be puttering along. I just hope all the goodwill and brand value isn’t gone before they decide to sell or divest their shares.
They are absolutely ok in continuing the business as usual.
08-05-2025 | 05:29 PM
#78
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Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,363
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From: Joystick Operator
This is accurate. If Indigo decides it’s not a good business and leaves, it is def a similar situation like spirit real quick, or even worse. BB gets reallllll sensitive every time Jamie Baker from jpmorgan gets onto him about the sale leasebacks, like in today’s questions answer session for earnings. The banks are real skeptical. A lot of airlines are struggling. The difference with most is they have assets. For more comparable for size… JetBlue, they have a huge asset pool with gates and slots and own a bunch of planes and have roughly 3.8b in liquidity with more to leverage against. Frontier does not. Frontier has 700 million and no assets.They have planes they count on for sell leasebacks. It’s not the end of the world right now, but it definitely is not good, which is why stock fell 15% today and investors ran. They are completely skeptical.
Barclays: Hey, good morning everyone. Thanks for taking the question. And Barry, I ask this with the most respect, but I guess it’s been two or three years now where we’ve seen a clear divergence in profitability between those that maybe have transatlantic routes and those that don’t. But there’s a narrative that there’s a structural shift happening. I guess, what’s gonna change looking forward? Because you guys have a huge order book. You’re taking deliveries, yet shrinking capacity. So how do we reconcile the outlook here versus an order book and an industry that needs to shrink? And I guess, where do you fit into that? And how do we hit that ever elusive double digit pretax margin?
BB: Yeah. Look. I I don’t take offense. I mean, I didn’t buy wide bodies ten years ago, and maybe I’d love to have them. But I I think history shows that, you know, there’s there’s periods of time where international is really good.
I go back to late nineties. The legacies were minting money on international. It really helped, really helped. Their corporate was really good, and low cost actually underperformed. You flipped a few years later, well, those fortunes change.
I think what’s become clear, and we actually think the model is now vindicated, is this is not a model issue. If you go look under the hood, this is a domestic oversupply issue, period. And what we now see is that these larger carriers and small, in some cases, competitors will be reducing capacity in The United States. Full stop. And we then, with the lowest costs and one of the cleanest balance sheets, will be a huge beneficiary of that.
08-05-2025 | 06:25 PM
#79
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Joined: Nov 2017
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To add on to this, there was another caller who really layed into BB about their 3 years of meh/loss and questioned their return to profits and their direction..... He got REALLY defensive, it was towards the end.
Barclays: Hey, good morning everyone. Thanks for taking the question. And Barry, I ask this with the most respect, but I guess it’s been two or three years now where we’ve seen a clear divergence in profitability between those that maybe have transatlantic routes and those that don’t. But there’s a narrative that there’s a structural shift happening. I guess, what’s gonna change looking forward? Because you guys have a huge order book. You’re taking deliveries, yet shrinking capacity. So how do we reconcile the outlook here versus an order book and an industry that needs to shrink? And I guess, where do you fit into that? And how do we hit that ever elusive double digit pretax margin?
BB: Yeah. Look. I I don’t take offense. I mean, I didn’t buy wide bodies ten years ago, and maybe I’d love to have them. But I I think history shows that, you know, there’s there’s periods of time where international is really good.
I go back to late nineties. The legacies were minting money on international. It really helped, really helped. Their corporate was really good, and low cost actually underperformed. You flipped a few years later, well, those fortunes change.
I think what’s become clear, and we actually think the model is now vindicated, is this is not a model issue. If you go look under the hood, this is a domestic oversupply issue, period. And what we now see is that these larger carriers and small, in some cases, competitors will be reducing capacity in The United States. Full stop. And we then, with the lowest costs and one of the cleanest balance sheets, will be a huge beneficiary of that.
Barclays: Hey, good morning everyone. Thanks for taking the question. And Barry, I ask this with the most respect, but I guess it’s been two or three years now where we’ve seen a clear divergence in profitability between those that maybe have transatlantic routes and those that don’t. But there’s a narrative that there’s a structural shift happening. I guess, what’s gonna change looking forward? Because you guys have a huge order book. You’re taking deliveries, yet shrinking capacity. So how do we reconcile the outlook here versus an order book and an industry that needs to shrink? And I guess, where do you fit into that? And how do we hit that ever elusive double digit pretax margin?
BB: Yeah. Look. I I don’t take offense. I mean, I didn’t buy wide bodies ten years ago, and maybe I’d love to have them. But I I think history shows that, you know, there’s there’s periods of time where international is really good.
I go back to late nineties. The legacies were minting money on international. It really helped, really helped. Their corporate was really good, and low cost actually underperformed. You flipped a few years later, well, those fortunes change.
I think what’s become clear, and we actually think the model is now vindicated, is this is not a model issue. If you go look under the hood, this is a domestic oversupply issue, period. And what we now see is that these larger carriers and small, in some cases, competitors will be reducing capacity in The United States. Full stop. And we then, with the lowest costs and one of the cleanest balance sheets, will be a huge beneficiary of that.
08-05-2025 | 07:02 PM
#80
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,768
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listening to Barry say the legacies were "subsidized by international" is like hearing the CEO of Dennys b1tch that IHOP is subsidized by pancakes, and "without pancakes, IHOP wouldn't be the same"
yes, he is the guy running Frontier, incredible isn't it
when Frontier stops flying on Tuesdays and Wednesdays that should really help open time even more
nice
yes, he is the guy running Frontier, incredible isn't it
when Frontier stops flying on Tuesdays and Wednesdays that should really help open time even more
nice
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