"making a profit" is not the magical medicine to make music start playing and butterflies fly in the morning. It needs to be substantial enough to communicate to Wall Street and others that the business model is still solid. Most important, it is important for credibility.

You either have a loss, break even, or made a profit. "Made a five dollar profit" is technically a profit.

I think some of us need to stop wistfully flipping thru old 2019-2021 photo albums about "how it used to be" and realize the world is different. COVID is behind us, 5 years to be exact.

Big-3 is making changes to embrace the near environment. ULCC or LCC-ish airlines are having serious issues. JetBlue, SWA all previously great companies are having trouble swimming in the current ocean.

What is Barry doing? beside's MF-ing the "international revenge travel" and lazy work from homers?

little to no open time, LAV's that smell like a latrine, and rude gate agents at major hubs.

Is he trapped in 2021 ?

I will be awaiting Aug 5 results, like all of us. Note this is a company presentation, with the accompanying "spin"

oh, and, how about that contact? maybe that gets mentioned Aug 5

 

Jeezus, you guys aren’t going to pass your next medical. For many of you, this must be your first round of contract negotiations and experience on the airline economic roller coaster. This round of negotiations has so many similarities to the last, I’ve lost track making comparisons; prior to any contract AIP we’re going to appear miles apart and you won’t get a single indication otherwise. That’s not special to us, it’s almost every pilot group. Excluding black swan events (i.e. 9/11, COVID) this industry moves and reacts in slow motion. You shouldn’t get hung up on quarterly results unless you’re an investor. You need to tune out Kirby’s talking points, he’s been trying to speak Frontier out of existence since he took over at United. We’re still here.

Deal hunting for cheap tickets comes and goes, and as Barry likes to say, it’ll be “back in vogue” at some point. In the meantime the company is trying to reposition themselves to be slightly closer to the Legacy product while providing value (e.g. free check bags). For instance, they’re offering add-on travel insurance policies to provide travel recovery options (on all carriers) to address the shortfalls of low-frequency routes; cool, wish we had done that long ago. As of late 2024 corporate travel agents can now book travel on us (“First Class” travel anyone?). Yeah, sure I’d like to see WiFi and as Starlink tries to poach carriers across the industry, I think we’ll see them make a deal with F9. It isn’t going to sink us in the short-term.

Also, there’s PLENTY that may be happening in the background. Indigo/Frontier shot offers at Spirit for several years before a merger agreement was announced. I’m not thoroughly convinced it’s a dead idea, and that with enough changes it could be made to fit again.

We’ll see, enjoy the show.

 

You cannot fake an sec filing GAAP cannot be messed with. So to say they’re so smart and hiding money to shrink their profits for their stock holdings into oblivion is ignorant.

Oh boy, insurance did you check the cost of this insurance on a ticket?


first class without WiFi. I’m sure that’ll turn us around.

business travel hasn’t come back. The legacies have seats they sell to undercut us. There isn’t a market for our product, these changes aren’t relative to the contract negotiating cycles. This is an example of how we are out classed.

 

It is $9.75 per ticket per leg with a family of 2.

 

Filler for reply.

 

Thanks for your replies. Well reasoned and appreciated. We are in an uphill position. I hope the environment shifts and we can again be disruptive to the legacy carriers. Right now they’ve routed us and we are pulling back. We need some changes that are worth their weight in gold. The cheap options aren’t working. We need more for less which isn’t going to happen without investment which they seem to avoiding like the plague according to CD we are not putting in WiFi which was a done deal until the tariffs messed that plan up. We’ve seen such a sharp pull back that we aren’t investing into new stuff we are just trying to hold status quo due to uncertainty. The uncertainty hasn’t lifted. So things aren’t going to improve anytime soon according to the C suite.

 

Seems fairly reasonable, if it works well. Would you agree?


Here’s the AI summary of the program:


Frontier Airlines offers "Disruption Assistance for Any Reason" as a way to manage flight disruptions
. This service provides passengers with the following benefits in cases of delays (2+ hours) or cancellations:

• Rebooking on any airline: The passenger can rebook on any available airline to the same destination for the same or next day.
• 100% refund option: If the passenger prefers not to rebook, they can receive a full refund (excluding the cost of the Disruption Assistance) and keep their Frontier reservation.
• Automatic Notifications: Passengers receive automatic notifications regarding their flight disruptions.
• Self-service options: The service allows for real-time, self-service options for managing the disruption.
• Coverage starts 24 hours before departure, offering protection when it is most needed.

Additional notes

• This "Disruption Assistance for Any Reason" is a relatively new offering from Frontier Airlines, available since July 30, 2025.
• It's powered by Hopper Technology Solutions (HTS).
• This service is available exclusively when booking on FlyFrontier.com.
• Frontier Airlines tickets are generally non-refundable. However, refunds are available in specific circumstances, such as canceling within 24 hours of booking (for flights 7 days or more away) or for flights canceled or significantly delayed by Frontier.
• For questions or more detailed information about the Disruption Assistance, it's advisable to check the Frontier Airlines website or app, or contact their customer service.

When I asked AI about average COST:

The cost of Frontier Airlines’ Disruption Assistance for Any Reason varies by flight. Based on available information, pricing typically ranges from $10 to $19 per flight. For example, a flight from Chicago O’Hare (ORD) to Boston (BOS) was quoted at $10, while a flight from New York (JFK) to Los Angeles (LAX) was quoted at $19. Since the cost depends on the specific route and booking, an average cost is roughly estimated to be around $15 per flight, though this can fluctuate. For precise pricing, check Frontier’s website during the booking process.

 

DrJekyll MrHyde has experience behind him/her and is quite realistic on this.

Frontier earnings are important but so is remaining here and being prepared for when the broader economic cyclical changes come home to roost. Keeping costs low and offering an option for a better product should help drive revenues higher. Obviously WiFi at this point is something that most customers expect to have access to. If it is $2.5-$5 per device a significant percentage of passengers would purchase it if it’s $10 or up that would probably drop off a bit.

The point being prolonged financial pressures are generally not beneficial for the legacy carriers. They don’t want high percentages of each flight having to be sold at basic economy pricing. A recession is not completely out of the question. The WSJ believes we are heading that way. Corporations don’t love business environments that change daily or weekly. Some corporations gave 2 sets of forward estimates or didn’t provide any at all. When faced with uncertainty Corporations clamp down. When families are uncertain about what lies ahead they clamp down too. People with less means clamp down sooner. Being here to fly people around for a low price has historically been a good business to be in when times are tough. When times are tough people will really hunt for the lowest price.

Just an opinion YMMV. I’m old.

 

We may make money, we may lose money. The key metric to monitor is the increase in RASM compared to CASM-exfuel. If the RASM increase is greater than the CASM-exfuel, the management plan is working. If not, it's going to be a rough road ahead.

 

Long term, absolutely.

But this spring and summer was an anomaly as people and businesses braced for tariff uncertainty. Trump injected an incredible amount of uncertainty into the economy in the spring and all the airlines saw a drop in bookings. As a result prices were down and I assume that our revenue will be down as there was pricing pressure.