RAH to aquire Frontier
06-23-2009, 06:13 AM
#111
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Originally Posted by selcal
The real ******* sandwich for the frontier pilots would be after they merged lists. A lot of Frontier f/o's are making more than republic capt. What would happen to the frontier f/o's? They move back to regional f/o payrate?
06-23-2009, 06:21 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: CL-65 FO
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by johnso29
Well RAH guys, now you'll have E190s AND A319/A320s on property so I think JB rates + 3% is your starting point. Anything less then JB rates is a disgrace to the industry. You OWE this to YX pilots.
06-23-2009, 06:39 AM
#113
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
they could and suddenly bring in more E-190s to "replace" the airbuses so that their flown at "RJ" wages 
The F9 guys need to be very careful because knowing the Reverend he'd get rid of everything involving Frontier except the name (aka midwest).
good luck F9 guys/gals
The F9 guys need to be very careful because knowing the Reverend he'd get rid of everything involving Frontier except the name (aka midwest).
good luck F9 guys/gals
AA
06-23-2009, 07:20 AM
#114
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: FO
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by SharkyBN584
If F9 DOES become a part of RAH...their pilots will have to be integrated into the RAH pilot list. It's cut and dry in our contract.
F9 pilots stating BB is looking for complete scope relief are retarded. Scope relief on what??? BB isn't trying to buy your airline to farm the planes out for someone else to fly. It's another cut and dry portion of our contract. If RAH owns the airplane, then RAH pilots fly 'em. And if RAH buys F9, F9 pilots become RAH pilots. So...you...fly...your...own...airplane. That's the concept the majors lost sight of a LONG time ago.
AND - since we don't have an Airbus pay rate...that means it's negotiating time. They got 60 days to work out a pay rate before it goes to forced Arbitration (again, cut and dry out of the contract). If people think Airbii are just going to show up on property and we're going to happily cruise around in them for $30 an hour, they need to have their head examined. It's not like the end-around they pull putting "just enough" seats on a 190 and saying "Here, fly this". This is a whole new aircraft, with a whole new set of rules and actually...a lot more leverage for the pilot group.
Now...I'm just guessing on all this...it's amazing how many "experts" popped up for a News Release that's THREE HOURS OLD!
F9 pilots stating BB is looking for complete scope relief are retarded. Scope relief on what??? BB isn't trying to buy your airline to farm the planes out for someone else to fly. It's another cut and dry portion of our contract. If RAH owns the airplane, then RAH pilots fly 'em. And if RAH buys F9, F9 pilots become RAH pilots. So...you...fly...your...own...airplane. That's the concept the majors lost sight of a LONG time ago.
AND - since we don't have an Airbus pay rate...that means it's negotiating time. They got 60 days to work out a pay rate before it goes to forced Arbitration (again, cut and dry out of the contract). If people think Airbii are just going to show up on property and we're going to happily cruise around in them for $30 an hour, they need to have their head examined. It's not like the end-around they pull putting "just enough" seats on a 190 and saying "Here, fly this". This is a whole new aircraft, with a whole new set of rules and actually...a lot more leverage for the pilot group.
Now...I'm just guessing on all this...it's amazing how many "experts" popped up for a News Release that's THREE HOURS OLD!
"There are many terms and conditions within the Republic Plan that must be satisfied in return for this investment. Of interest to FAPA Members – the Republic Plan requires changes be made to our CBA including a 3 year extension (to March 2, 2015) of the amendable date and a change to Section 1.F allowing for “unlimited scope relief.” For all employees, the Frontier profit sharing plan will be replaced with a Republic profit sharing plan. Republic’s terms are initial “asks” and not changes that will be casually forced upon us. Republic has indicated that they plan to operate Frontier as a separate fenced off company and not merge seniority lists."
I am not disagreeing with you that your contract states what you say it does. However, if there was going to be a merger in seniority lists, then why would they even ask for "unlimited scope relief"? Which...BB...did...ask...for. Perhaps BB thinks you will relax parts of your contract to allow Frontier to operate separately. He may exchange this for industry standard 170/190 pay (lets hope and pray!). That would save all those training costs. The point is that nobody knows. Lets just hope another bidder comes along and outbids RAH. If not, then lets hope there is no merger and Frontier operates separately.
06-23-2009, 07:30 AM
#115
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Any company asking for "unlimited scope relief" is up to no good! Scope is the only protection to being completely outsourced. Give that up and F9 will be the next midwest!
For the Republic pilots, you should be very concerned with the fact that they are telling the F9 pilots that they will ignore your contract and attempt to operate separately.
This is bad news for everyone and nothing good can come out of this.
For the Republic pilots, you should be very concerned with the fact that they are telling the F9 pilots that they will ignore your contract and attempt to operate separately.
This is bad news for everyone and nothing good can come out of this.
06-23-2009, 07:47 AM
#116
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by IFly17
I tend to think they owe it to all airline pilots.
06-23-2009, 08:02 AM
#117
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 1,458
Republic pilots, this is your chance to stand up for whats right. No more excuses like "We can't control what our management makes us do". Quit being a bunch of self centered babies and stand up for the future of our industry.
If you all sit back and smile like you have with the Midwest ordeal, then you will suffer more than just being put on some list. Your actions are really enraging your fellow pilots.
If you all sit back and smile like you have with the Midwest ordeal, then you will suffer more than just being put on some list. Your actions are really enraging your fellow pilots.
06-23-2009, 08:12 AM
#118
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by Flex81
This is directly from Frontier's Pilot Union:
"There are many terms and conditions within the Republic Plan that must be satisfied in return for this investment. Of interest to FAPA Members – the Republic Plan requires changes be made to our CBA including a 3 year extension (to March 2, 2015) of the amendable date and a change to Section 1.F allowing for “unlimited scope relief.” For all employees, the Frontier profit sharing plan will be replaced with a Republic profit sharing plan. Republic’s terms are initial “asks” and not changes that will be casually forced upon us. Republic has indicated that they plan to operate Frontier as a separate fenced off company and not merge seniority lists."
I am not disagreeing with you that your contract states what you say it does. However, if there was going to be a merger in seniority lists, then why would they even ask for "unlimited scope relief"? Which...BB...did...ask...for. Perhaps BB thinks you will relax parts of your contract to allow Frontier to operate separately. He may exchange this for industry standard 170/190 pay (lets hope and pray!). That would save all those training costs. The point is that nobody knows. Lets just hope another bidder comes along and outbids RAH. If not, then lets hope there is no merger and Frontier operates separately.
"There are many terms and conditions within the Republic Plan that must be satisfied in return for this investment. Of interest to FAPA Members – the Republic Plan requires changes be made to our CBA including a 3 year extension (to March 2, 2015) of the amendable date and a change to Section 1.F allowing for “unlimited scope relief.” For all employees, the Frontier profit sharing plan will be replaced with a Republic profit sharing plan. Republic’s terms are initial “asks” and not changes that will be casually forced upon us. Republic has indicated that they plan to operate Frontier as a separate fenced off company and not merge seniority lists."
I am not disagreeing with you that your contract states what you say it does. However, if there was going to be a merger in seniority lists, then why would they even ask for "unlimited scope relief"? Which...BB...did...ask...for. Perhaps BB thinks you will relax parts of your contract to allow Frontier to operate separately. He may exchange this for industry standard 170/190 pay (lets hope and pray!). That would save all those training costs. The point is that nobody knows. Lets just hope another bidder comes along and outbids RAH. If not, then lets hope there is no merger and Frontier operates separately.
Is this really what it has come to in this profession.... mainline pilots asking the regional pilots for scope relief.......
06-23-2009, 08:13 AM
#119
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by texaspilot76
Republic pilots, this is your chance to stand up for whats right. No more excuses like "We can't control what our management makes us do". Quit being a bunch of self centered babies and stand up for the future of our industry.
If you all sit back and smile like you have with the Midwest ordeal, then you will suffer more than just being put on some list. Your actions are really enraging your fellow pilots.
If you all sit back and smile like you have with the Midwest ordeal, then you will suffer more than just being put on some list. Your actions are really enraging your fellow pilots.
Extremely Well Said.
06-23-2009, 08:18 AM
#120
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by Mason32
Is this really what it has come to in this profession.... mainline pilots asking the regional pilots for scope relief.......
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