Eric, the reason I don't think it's right to offer someone a job only if they go get the type is because I believe that it falls into the 'pay for training' category akin to your pay for upgrade analogy. If you apply with the type, it’s just another credential on your resume' like a college degree. The FAA doesn't care if you went to college but if that is what the employer desires, I'd get that degree if I wanted to work for a certain company. If SWA wants to see a 737 type and the applicant really wants to work there, then he should get the type.
As far as your hypothetical applicant 'A', you ask who is more qualified. The FAA says that anyone with a commercial rating can sit in the right seat. The employer has higher standards (except late 80's United). There is no requirement for 1000 turbine PIC...but that is what the employer wants to see as a min. I might argue that your hypothetical applicant 'B' may be 'more qualified as he is able to determine what the employer is looking for and is able to deliver that commodity.
We could argue all day about what you think makes an applicant 'qualified' but in the end, if someone wants to really work for SWA, they will have +/- 2000 turbine PIC, college degree, 737 type rating, several references and a good attitude. We have the lowest (or one of the lowest) employee to airplane ratios (now in the high 60's). SWA can't afford to pay a bunch of people to sit around in a big room trying to determine who is the MOST qualified. They set the standard high for what they want to see (it's their ball game) and may not be perceived in every case as fair but everyone who is invited to an interview is qualified. SWA will tell you (they told me) that the interview is not to see if you are qualified, it’s a personality interview.
I know our posts here are mostly opinion, but your side note is factually wrong. Not all SWA pilots have paid for a type rating but all have obtained one. It’s the best investment that I’ve made. Best wishes to you.

 

Every company can choose who plays the game and how it will be played. It is thier perogative. The type rating requirement probably has less to do with experience training or skill and more to do with a way to pre-screen applicants. Those who want it bad enough from those with a mild interest. Each company has its strange methods and preferences. We either dance for them or not.


SkyHigh

 

SWA doesn't require a type rating to interview anymore. Just one before employment. http://www.southwest.com/careers/pilots.html Not getting into the issue just clarifying some earlier post. They used to require to interview now only after you've been offered the job.

 

Skyhigh, very well said. As I recall, in the early 90's, you either needed an FE rating or at a min. the FE written to apply at most of the legacies (majors).

 

Admittedly, we are off the subject of the original post, but it's an interesting topic nonetheless. We already know SkyHigh is pro-pay-for-training, so of course he will side with the SWA prerequisite. It is obviously used as a discriminator in the hiring process used to weed through the thousands of applicants for the handful of available positions, much like a college degree, or a preset number of PIC hours...all of which are determined by the employer. Insurance discounts aside, how does a pencil-whipped 737 type rating (the variety any pilot with 6,000 bucks in their pocket can get) make one candidate more "qualified" than someone without it? The washout rate in initial training at an airline at this level is extremely low, including those that have not not previously qualified in that specific type. I would much rather see an airline require a sim ride to their company's standards of proficiency in the type of aircraft to be flown than support these type rating QuikiMarts. Does SWA have an ownership stake in Higher Power?

 

True, but can you name anybody that has been called for an interview without a type rating in the past year or two? I know of several people who get calls now and then from Southwest asking if they have their types, but never get the invite.

 

SWAcapt, that is mind bogling to me that you think it is better to require a type rating before you could apply rather than get it after they have been given the job offer. Isn't that just semantics. They still wouldn't meet the job requirements unless they get the type rating.

Am I safe in saying that you don't think it would be a bad thing if all the airlines required a type rating or FE certificate in the airplanes that they fly. The FE written that was required only cost $200 vs. a type that costs $5000-$7000.

I know that you don't have to buy the type if you got it at another airline or through an AIR Inc. convension, but it would be interesting to know the % of pilot who bought vs. already had the type.

SkyHigh I know it's the airlines perogative to hire however they please but if the regionals and ValueJet/Airtran can get rid of their pay for training or what ever you want to call it then southwest could too. I just don't think that will ever happen. Beside finding out how much a person wants to work at southwest by requireing the type, how much money does southwest save by doing this?

This is just hearsay but I heard that in the past if you bought the type it was almost a lock to get the job. Times have sure changed if that was true. Stupid supply and demand theory.

 

I don't understand why you choose this arbitrary point to decide that you shouldn't pay for your training anymore. Back when my father was 22 he was approached by the majors and they offered to pay for him to finish all his commercial and instrument ratings. 6K more is a drop in the bucket compared to what you have already spent. In the future we will all have to pay for our own interviews on top of having to pay for our own training. 6K seems cheap and a silly topic.

SkyHigh

 

[QUOTE=Eric Stratton]SWAcapt, that is mind bogling to me that you think it is better to require a type rating before you could apply rather than get it after they have been given the job offer. Isn't that just semantics. They still wouldn't meet the job requirements unless they get the type rating.
Eric, I'm sorry that your mind is boggled. I don't know how to be any more clear to you on this subject. There are tens of thousands of pilots that the FAA would deem qualified. SWA is as streamlined as it gets and is not going to employ more people to cull through resume's. They get to choose they way that they cull the wheat from the chaff. If I'm preparring to apply for a job, I'm going to be the most qualified (as to what they are looking for) period. I believe that to offer someone a job contingent upon paying for a type is akin to pay for training. SWA did not require me to get a type rating or a college education or thousands of jet hours. I did all those things on my own volition and then applied for the job. Apparently they liked the 'package' and called me for an interview (personality check).
Am I safe in saying that you don't think it would be a bad thing if all the airlines required a type rating or FE certificate in the airplanes that they fly. The FE written that was required only cost $200 vs. a type that costs $5000-$7000.
No, Eric, you would not be safe to say that. I'm not advocating any such thing. But that said, once again each company is free to set it's own criteria and if I was and applicant, I would want my package to look the best. If I want to set hiring criteria, then I'll need to start my own company.
I know that you don't have to buy the type if you got it at another airline or through an AIR Inc. convension, but it would be interesting to know the % of pilot who bought vs. already had the type.
I don't know of any place to 'buy' a type rating and your getting it at an AirInc convention makes no sense. I contracted with a company (CPT) and studied for 30 days and then went to their facility for training and was given an FAA checkride (no not a designee).
I don't know what else I can say to help you understand these concepts but suggest you may want to concentrate your efforts on some other fine companies such as FedEx, UPS, Airtran, JetBlue, or Alaska. Those that are truley serious about wanting to work for SWA will have a B737 type. I wish you the best in where ever you career search takes you.

 

SWAcapt,

I totally agree with you on that one. I don't think it is such a bad thing to have to buy a type rating for SWA. If it will set you appart from the rest when you go for your interview, why not? It is a small price to pay upfront to fly for such a respected company. If you put in the effort, and end up with the type, it only goes to show them that you are a compitent airman, and that they don't have any reason not to hire you. (unless you are a jerk...) That's my 2 cents...

D