Rightup

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_cen...sa_scarsec.asp

The Southern states seceded because they feared Lincoln would outlaw slavery

SonicFlyer

No one is disputing that. But the states had a right to secede which the union government violated.

SonicFlyer

Yes that is correct. But slavery was only 1 of several reasons they wanted to secede.



Once SC left the Union the Union was obligated to give that land back to SC since SC was no longer part of the Union. The Union was in violation and started the war against Southern independence. SC left the Union peacefully as they had a right to do under the Constitution and natural law.




The Anti-Federalist Papers are a much better read:

https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Federali...s%2C250&sr=8-3

Av8tr1

Ok what were the other reasons?


On what do you base this on? The following was the actual wording from the agreement.

From the Committee on Federal Relations In the House of Representatives, December 31st, 1836"The Committee on Federal relations, to which was referred the Governor's message, relating to the site of Fort Sumter, in the harbour of Charleston, and the report of the Committee on Federal Relations from the Senate on the same subject, beg leave to Report by Resolution:

"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory, Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.

"Also resolved: That the State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim there be, of any individuals under the authority of this State, to the land hereby ceded.

"Resolved, That this House to agree. Ordered that it be sent to the Senate for concurrence. By order of the House:

"T. W. Glover, C. H. R."
"In Senate, December 21st, 1836


Basically South Carolina ceded Fort Sumter, at least the sandbar it rests on, to the Federal Government and then tried to take it back. They gave up ALL rights to the land before secession. Quoting the agreement "all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site" They sold the cow and then tried to get it back without paying for it.

AirBear

My Dad was a Merchant Marine his entire career. Started in 1942 when they were the only ones who would take a man with asthma. At that point in the war they'd take anyone with a pulse. He retired in the mid 1970's. His union was the Masters, Mates, and Pilots (MM&P). All work came thru the Union Hall (National Seniority List). If the company that owned the US Flagged Ship needed a Chief Mate on down they called the Union Hall who would then check and see who was next up on the list and offer them the cruise. They could take it or pass. Airline Pilots would be so much better off if they could have put aside differences and formed a national union with just one contract, maybe with minor variations to suit the particular circumstances of a carrier.

SonicFlyer

Fascinating... assuming there is no spin there I did not realize that. Learn something new every day...

I guess the question becomes that once SC severed ties with the Union if that specific agreement would still legally be in effect? Obviously the Union would argue yes, and SC would argue no. I'm not a lawyer but it would seem there may have been precedent with international/contract law? I dunno.

On the other hand SC did have a good point that when the Union tried to resupply Sumter that was an act of war by the Union.

Av8tr1

hey man I was as shocked as you to learn some of this. Was an eye opener when I started to research into the dogma we have all been taught growing up.


im not a lawyer either, though I did study it in college. I stupidly wanted to be a lawyer when I grew up. Fortunately I never grew up and became a pilot instead.

so I can’t answer the question about the laws here either. But regardless the commander of Fort Sumter surrendered the fort to the confederacy so at that point it was theirs.

point being there is a LOT of misunderstanding around the civil war.

hydrostream

You're qualified to say this because you "walked by a homeless guy?" You've gotta be trolling us.

Av8tr1

No I am qualified to say this from my military and civil service all over the world for nearly 2 decades in some pretty ugly 3rd world countries. Some might qualify for 4th world recognition. I say that not to look down on people but that people in these places have it pretty bad compared to even our homeless. Like my friend who came from Mexico whose family lived in an actual mud hut. He is now a well known chef (not famous but known in the community) in Seattle married to a wonderful woman with a daughter who just went into the Coast Guard. She wants to be a pilot and I took her for her first flight over to the restaurant at the Bremerton airport. She's been hooked on flying ever since. Pretty good for a guy who started in a actual mud hut.

(Although I visited a place that would be considered 4th world and I envied those people for the lack of technology and modern comforts. Something to be said for that.)

The homeless guy was Downtown Seattle 3rd and Lenora street by the social services office where he got things like free healthcare and a meal or two. He would camp out by the local Starbucks. Had a nice dell laptop. I could see him playing World of Warcraft as I walked by at least once. Soooo......I'm gonna say he's doing better than the old guy in a to be unnamed chithole in the middle east that I saw with both legs AND an arm missing, drooling on himself on a dirt path basically just lying next to the road. He was actually a landmark for the troops. I am 85% sure he was alive for the week or so I was in country.

Feel free to verify this next time you are in Seattle. While you are down near 3rd and Lenora, where the social services offices are, I recommend the Pho place down 2 blocks (local Pho?) where you can sit at a table near the window and watch the homeless go about their day in one of the richest cities in the nation where our homeless most definitely have it better than most in 3rd world chitholes. I would avoid the parking garage up by Bed Bath and Beyond. It smells like a outhouse because the homeless all around there use it as such.

JamesNoBrakes

And the executive branch, to be specific.