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Poland Article4 after Russian drone incursion

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Old 09-26-2025 | 06:35 PM
  #31  
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I saw this great video about a private residence in a rehabilitated Atlas E missile silo originally built in the 1960's in Sprague, Washington.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br0Il37t5Uk&t=905s

There are fights you can't win. If you're lucky, you might survive them.

(Hard to care too much about WWIII. You won't survive it; if you do, you'll probably envy the dead anyway.)

I hope the Russians love their children too. (Ancient "Sting" reference.)
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Old 09-26-2025 | 08:12 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by DeltaboundRedux
I hope the Russians love their children too. (Ancient "Sting" reference.)
They do. But it's not the rank and file Russian on the street we're worried about.
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Old 09-27-2025 | 05:56 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
They do. But it's not the rank and file Russian on the street we're worried about.
Nor should we pretend that a Putin replacement would necessarily be less hostile to Western interests.
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Old 09-27-2025 | 06:00 AM
  #34  
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https://www.dw.com/en/denmark-new-dr...ure/a-74156361

Denmark: New drone sightings over military infrastructure

Rana Taha with AFP, Reuters
4 hours ago4 hours agoDanish security authorities said drones were seen over the country's biggest military base overnight.


What do we know about the latest drone sightings?

The Danish armed forces stopped short of identifying the exact location of the drone sightings.

But the French AFP news agency and Ritzau News agency cited the police as saying the sightings were reported over the Karup air base in western Denmark, the main base of the Royal Danish Air Force.

"I can confirm that we had an incident around 8:15 pm (1815 GMT Friday) that lasted for some hours. One to two drones were observed outside and over the airbase," duty officer Simon Skelsjaer told AFP, referring to the Karup military base.

Skelsjaer said police could not comment on where the drones came from, adding that police were cooperating with the military in their investigation.

"We didn't take them down," the officer said of the drones.

The Karup base shares its runways with the Midtjylland civilian airport. Skelsjaer said the latter was briefly closed though due to the sightings, but with little impact as no commercial flights were scheduled at that hour.

Copenhagen calls slew of drone sightings 'hybrid attacks'

The sighting is the latest in a series that has caused the Nordic country to temporarily close several airports as it dealt with what Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen called "hybrid attacks."

Commenting on the drones over Copenhagen Airport earlier this week, Frederiksen described them as "the most serious attack on Danish critical infrastructure to date."

The drone incursions followed similar incidents in Poland and Romania and the violation of Estonian airspace by Russian fighter jets, which have raised tensions amid Russia's ongoing full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
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Old 09-27-2025 | 08:58 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Nor should we pretend that a Putin replacement would necessarily be less hostile to Western interests.
Good chance they'd be worse than Putin, just looking at the bench.
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Old 09-27-2025 | 09:57 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Good chance they'd be worse than Putin, just looking at the bench.
It is an ugly bench…

https://theweek.com/feature/briefing/1024619/putins-potential-successors

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/putins-succession-plan-these-are-the-people-who-could-be-russias-next-leaders/articleshow/124001655.cms?from=mdr


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Old 09-27-2025 | 05:40 PM
  #37  
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https://warontherocks.com/2025/09/na...fense-dilemma/

Excerpts:

NATO’s Air Defense Dilemma

#Drones #Eastern Europe #Europe #Russia #Russo-Ukrainian War
ROBERT HAMILTON
SEPTEMBER 25, 2025Shortly before midnight on the night of Sept. 9–10, Polish Air Force and NATO radar operators noticed multiple aircraft crossing into Polish airspace from Ukraine and Belarus. Poland’s air force command issued a quick reaction alert, scrambling Polish F-16 and Dutch F-35 fighters to identify and, if necessary, eliminate the threat. NATO also launched an Italian airborne command and control aircraft and alerted German Patriot air defense missile units on the ground. For the next 7 hours, NATO forces tracked and engaged some 19 Russian drones, shooting down 4 of them, marking the first direct fire engagement between NATO and Russia since the Kremlin’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Several days later, another Russian drone flew some 20 kilometers into Romanian airspace and was tracked by Romanian F-16s before turning back toward Ukraine. Then, on the night of Sept. 19, Russian jets violated Estonian airspace for 12 minutes in what Tallinn labeled an “unprecedentedly brazen” incursion. Finally, on Sept. 23 several drones appeared over the Copenhagen airport, causing it to close for several hours in what Danish authorities said was another Russian operation.





Russian Intentions and “Hanlon’s Razor”

The obvious question is why Russian drones and aircraft have suddenly begun flying into NATO airspace. The Kremlin has been coy, simply announcing that it was not intending to attack targets in Poland. Russia’s ally Belarus said the drones had been thrown off course by jamming and the incursion was unintentional, asserting credit for informing Poland of the incursion in advance and even claiming to have shot down some of them.

Some in the West, including U.S. President Donald Trump, seem willing to entertain this explanation. When asked about the incursion into Poland, Trump said it “could have been a mistake.” Poland’s response was uncharacteristically blunt: Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski immediately shot back, posting on social media, “No, that wasn’t a mistake.” Warfare is a messy business, with Clausewitz’s famous fog — poor information or lack of information altogether — and friction — when easy things become difficult —always playing a role. This is why, when confronted with a situation like this, it is wise to remember Hanlon’s Razor, which advises to never ascribe to malevolence that which can reasonably be explained by incompetence. Militaries make mistakes in wartime. And Russia’s military, with its long traditions of corruption, abusive leadership, poor human capital, and shoddy equipment, makes more than its share.

But here Poland’s foreign minister is likely to be correct: This was not a mistake; it was a deliberate probe of NATO’s political resolve and military capabilities. Single Russian drones have flown into and fallen on NATO countries before, usually after being jammed or shot at by Ukrainian air defenses. But 19 drones penetrating Polish airspace for seven hours is unlikely to be accidental. Adding further credence to this being a deliberate probe is that all drones recovered were of a single type: the Gerbera, an unarmed Russian variant of the Iranian Shahed, usually used as a decoy. Russian drone strike packages always include a mixture of reconnaissance, attack, and decoy drones, making it highly unlikely that any 19 drones in a package are of the same type. Finally, the subsequent incursions into Romania and Estonia — the latter of which was certainly intentional — seem to form a pattern, strengthening the argument for the Polish incursion being deliberate.

Russia’s use of the Gerbera in the Polish incursion offers it several advantages. First, it is unarmed, eliminating the possibility that a drone’s warhead will explode and kill or injure people on the ground, an escalation Russia is likely not yet ready for. Next, the Gerbera is cheap, at some $10,000 per copy. By contrast, the Dutch F-35s that shot down at least four of the drones carry AIM-9X Sidewinder and AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM missiles, which cost from $500,000 to $1 million apiece. So, NATO is spending 50 to 100 times the cost of a Russian drone for each one it shoots down.

Early assessments of Russia’s drone ploy must conclude that it achieved its goals. Trump’s lackluster response fomented political tension within the alliance, with European leaders expressing dismay and concern. A senior German official said “with this U.S. administration, we can’t rely on anything. But we have to pretend that we could.” An Eastern European diplomat added, “Washington’s silence has been almost deafening.” And at a cost of less than $200,000 to itself, Russia forced NATO to spend millions of dollars in fuel and missiles and got a good picture of NATO’s military capabilities, information that will be useful if the conflict escalates to war between Russia and the West.
How Should NATO Respond?

In response to the Russian incursion, NATO announced Operation Eastern Sentry, which the Supreme Allied Commander Europe, Gen. Alexus Grynkewich, said “will deliver even more focused and flexible deterrence and defense where and when needed to protect our people and deter against further reckless and dangerous acts.” So far Denmark, France, and Germany have announced plans to deploy fighter aircraft to Poland, and NATO has said it will also deploy systems like “counter-drone sensors and weapons to detect, track and kill drones.”

This is not enough. NATO’s statement about “focused and flexible deterrence” means little in practice, and the capabilities the alliance has committed to Eastern Sentry are paltry. If NATO continues to defend from behind the borders of its members, Russia could eventually kill people in a NATO country, putting that country and the alliance on the horns of a dilemma. In response to Russia’s drone incursion, Poland invoked Article 4 of the NATO Treaty, which requires allies to consult on a response. A Russian incursion that causes deaths in a frontline state — one of the Baltic Republics, Poland, or Romania are the most likely candidates — may well result in an Article 5 declaration from the country that Russia attacked.

Article 5 is widely misunderstood. It does not obligate NATO members to respond to an attack on another member with military force, it only obligates each member to consider that attack an attack on itself. How each country responds is still a national decision and herein lies the dilemma. Without the United States, any NATO military response would lack teeth, and the Trump administration has consistently signaled its lackadaisical attitude toward NATO and European security in general. So, in the event that the United States opts out of a military response to an Article 5 declaration by a NATO member, Russia would have achieved its longstanding goal of causing a rupture between the United States and its NATO allies, all at acceptable military cost to itself. If the United States stood firmly on NATO’s side, the military cost to Russia would be higher, but so would the potential for escalation to outright war between NATO and Russia.

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Old 09-28-2025 | 10:13 AM
  #38  
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Default Worth a read deux…

How Long-Range Weapons Could Upend Modern Warfare

September 24, 2025
By: James Holmes

Long-range weapons will not totally reshape war as we know it—but they could blur the difference between offensive and defensive operations.

The character of warfare feels increasingly elastic. Countervailing factors are stretching and compressing distance at the same time. For one, military technology is galloping along. Sensor, computer, and weapons technology is drastically boosting the reach, precision, speed, and evasiveness of guided missiles. Uncrewed and often autonomous vehicles prowl the skies, the sea surface, and the depths. Novel implements like artificial intelligence promise to further alter the face of warfare. Meanwhile, space forces maintain sleepless overwatch over the battlespace, helping armed forces detect, track, and target their foes at extreme ranges.

In other words, technology is stretching precision-weapons range to its utmost. In fact, the US Air Force and Space Force prophesy that the day is not far distant when armed forces and societies will enjoy no safe refuge from attack—anywhere on the planet?


https://nationalinterest.org/feature...fare-jh-092025

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Old 10-04-2025 | 07:36 AM
  #39  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/15-s...military-base/


OCTOBER 3, 2025 11:29 AM CET
BY ELENA GIORDANOBelgium's defense ministry is investigating after 15 drones were spotted Thursday night over the Elsenborn military base near the German border, according to local media reports.

The ministry told POLITICO on Friday it was still probing the incident. It's currently not clear where the drones came from or who operated them, but reports said they flew into Germany after buzzing the base.

Belgian Defense Minister Theo Francken said Friday there is currently no concrete evidence linking the incident to Russia.

“That must be investigated. Personally, I think those drones are often an example of hybrid threats. This is a way to sow unrest. That has been Russia’s pattern for many years,” he said.

The Belgian sighting comes amid a wave of drone-related disruptions plaguing Europe's airspace.

On Thursday evening, a separate incident over Munich Airport forced air traffic control to suspend operations, leading to the cancellation of 17 flights and affecting nearly 3,000 passengers.

“Munich Airport, in cooperation with the airlines, immediately took care of passenger care in the terminals. Camp beds were set up, blankets, drinks and snacks were handed out,” Munich Airport said in a statement Friday.

Bavarian Premier Markus Söder said Friday that police should be allowed to shoot down drones immediately. “[The state of] Bavaria must pass a fast-track law for this,” the Christian Social Union politician wrote in a post on X.

Airport officials added that 15 incoming flights were diverted to Stuttgart, Nuremberg, Vienna and Frankfurt.

British concern

Analysts are worried by the difficulty of responding to these incidents.

A recent assessment of threats to the U.K. in the Strategic Defense Review gave high importance to the development of counter-drone technology — but gave less space to the risk currently faced in British airspace.

Robert Tollast, a researcher at the defense think tank RUSI, said police and military authorities in the U.K. were “increasingly concerned” about drones, but their main concern was over the type of quad-copter which disrupted Gatwick Airport in 2018 rather than the larger drones seen in Europe recently.

“If you're looking at defending an airport from quad-copters, it's really difficult,” he added. Private companies and the police have been exploring a number of ways to detect small drones, which have developed considerably since 2018 but are still expensive to purchase.

Drone technology is evolving at a “worrying” pace, Tollast said, and “U.K. military and U.K. police need to be training on these situations on a very regular basis but at the moment, it's slow going.”
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Old 10-06-2025 | 09:13 AM
  #40  
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'Drones have not posed any concrete threat' so far — Pistorius

Defense Minister Boris Pistorius has said that the debate surrounding drone sightings over German airports is unprecedented, making it "all the more important to view the situation soberly and calmly. So far, the observed drones have not posed any concrete threat."

In an interview with the Handelsblatt business newspaper, Pistorius said good progress was being made on drone defense but played down expectations that the German armed forces, the Bundeswehr, could be made responsible for shooting down drones wherever they appeared.

"The Bundeswehr cannot be everywhere in Germany where drones appear and bring them down," he said. "Much more crucial is that the state and federal police build the capabilities they need to operate up to a certain altitude."

He also voiced skepticism about plans by Interior Minister Alexander Dobrindt to establish a drone defense center.

"This center would then only be responsible for a potential threat from drones. However, we must expect that there could be multiple threat scenarios," said Pistorius, mentioning the possibility that forest fires or power outages could occur simultaneously in different parts of Germany.

"Therefore, we primarily need a joint 24/7-360-degree situational awareness."

Pistorius said Russia was trying to create uncertainty with breaches of airspace and drone overflights.

"It's about provoking, instilling fear, and triggering controversial debates. [Russian President Vladimir] Putin knows Germany very, very well, as we all know. He also knows the German instincts and reflexes," he said.

However, he said that although German intelligence has suggested that Russia will be in a position to attack a NATO country by 2029, "this does not mean that Putin will necessarily take this step."

Pistorius said that while one could hope for the most positive scenario, one "also has to prepare for the worst case

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-news-p.../live-74226128


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