Why do you like or dislike your job?
09-28-2008, 05:16 AM
#31
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,588
Originally Posted by proskuneho
I love flying tremendously, but I just don't want to be poor for ten years. If I finish my MBA, than maybe I can get a more secure job and just buy my own plane. Maybe with the combination of my aviation management experience and my growing flight experience I should seek a job as a 135 manager? That's why I am on this forum - to get feedback to make an informed decision.
09-28-2008, 07:53 AM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
I can't add to why I like my job because all the good stuff has already been mentioned..But I will say this about disliking my job...
All of the associated BS (company treats you poorly, underpaid, FAA etc..) that comes with being an airline pilot makes it very very difficult to maintain a positive attitude about my work. This even despite knowing I have one of the coolest jobs in the world. I was very positive about my career when I started out. Now I'm not so thrilled about being a pilot anymore..The job has stolen enough joy out of being in a cockpit that I now wonder if I should do something else and fly only for fun...
I imagine I'll keep pluggin along until I can get a sweet corporate gig at my local airport. Then I'll have even more time off to think about building an income in some other form...
As much as I love to fly, flying 121 is very stressful..It seems that even when the industry is doing well it's a constant struggle to keep your job as there are so many ways to lose it..This is perhaps the single most aggravating aspect of it all. I feel like the industry is designed in a way where a pilot must consistently face forces that are actively trying to relieve you of your job and certificate at every turn. It's like every leg is a check-ride. When you finish one uneventfully you pass go and may take off on the next one. I don't like the simplest of human errors being just cause for you to loose your job or get suspended even when no harm was done. The industry is woefully over-regulated. In my opinion it is so to the point where I have to wonder if the over-abundance of convoluted regulatory issues in itself makes things less safe...
All of the associated BS (company treats you poorly, underpaid, FAA etc..) that comes with being an airline pilot makes it very very difficult to maintain a positive attitude about my work. This even despite knowing I have one of the coolest jobs in the world. I was very positive about my career when I started out. Now I'm not so thrilled about being a pilot anymore..The job has stolen enough joy out of being in a cockpit that I now wonder if I should do something else and fly only for fun...
I imagine I'll keep pluggin along until I can get a sweet corporate gig at my local airport. Then I'll have even more time off to think about building an income in some other form...
As much as I love to fly, flying 121 is very stressful..It seems that even when the industry is doing well it's a constant struggle to keep your job as there are so many ways to lose it..This is perhaps the single most aggravating aspect of it all. I feel like the industry is designed in a way where a pilot must consistently face forces that are actively trying to relieve you of your job and certificate at every turn. It's like every leg is a check-ride. When you finish one uneventfully you pass go and may take off on the next one. I don't like the simplest of human errors being just cause for you to loose your job or get suspended even when no harm was done. The industry is woefully over-regulated. In my opinion it is so to the point where I have to wonder if the over-abundance of convoluted regulatory issues in itself makes things less safe...
09-28-2008, 08:10 AM
#33
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 16
I'm one of the guys that's working on getting out of this flying business. Here's my take on it:
I had a real job and hated it, so I came to flying (this was 10 years ago). It's been a really fun ride getting hours, meeting people, and drinking beer. I started at my regional 6 years ago. It's probably been the biggest disappointment I've had in my career. I feel like I'm getting professionally dumber, and am just a number in the system. Maybe some people are ok with that, but I feel more motivated to continue to accomplish things in my life. I can honestly say that the only challenge I've had is trying to figure out how to get out.
In 6 years here, I'm still an FO with no upgrade in sight. I thought it was just around the corner, but then fuel hit new records. Let me tell you, being a professional Pilot with 10 years experience making less than 40k can be very frustrating. I came into this job knowing that it would take some time and some sacrifice, but with no light at the end of the [very long] tunnel it's time to pull the plug. I'm missing out on my earning years, spending too much time away from my family, and that doesn't fit with my goals for life and retirement.
Those are the bad things, in my very humble opinion. I'm sure others will readily disagree.
The good things:
Lots of great people work here. I've met some really interesting folks along the way. It's also nice to come to work and know exactly what's expected of you. Which makes the job easy. It really is an easy job (when things go right). I think it's healthy to spend a little bit of time away from the family and do what you like. 3 days would be ok. 4 days is too much. No office politics - which is good and bad. Try working with someone who has no social skills because the job doesn't demand it. That happens, and can be tough. At the same time, you can call a spade a spade
. I never see my boss, either. That's cool. I wouldn't change the experience that I've gotten from this field for anything. Pilots in general are more pessimistic on the business, and tend to pay more attention to the details of the business than other employee groups. This gives us a more down to earth perspective than other work groups that get overly optimistic and tend to guzzle the kool aid.
The best job I had was flying a Navajo in Alaska. We worked hard, flew hard, and played hard. It was also the most money I ever made. THAT was good, challenging, and rewarding flying with some absolutely amazing people.
I'm not sure what's going to happen in my quest to move on. Trying to quit has probably been the hardest thing I've ever done (odd, for a guy disappointed in the field, huh?). I guess that means that I like the job too much (and have too much invested) to just walk away. Take that as a good thing. In the mean time, I attend Grad school which offers me the mental challenge that I need (that the job doesn't offer). I guess what I'm saying is, you'll probably need to find a balance. Coming from management, I think you'll find the work to be a bit dull after a while. Once you've met your goals (which happens), what else are you going to shoot for? Outside stimulation may be the only answer, and it can be hard to multitask considering the schedule the regionals run.
Lots of people do this job, and lots of them like it. That says something. At the same time, lots of people have been very disappointed in the results. That says something, too. It's not even close to a perfect field. Keep doing your research and, if anything, just jump in with a good backup plan in hand. Like my Dad says 'if you don't do it now, you probably never will'.
I had a real job and hated it, so I came to flying (this was 10 years ago). It's been a really fun ride getting hours, meeting people, and drinking beer. I started at my regional 6 years ago. It's probably been the biggest disappointment I've had in my career. I feel like I'm getting professionally dumber, and am just a number in the system. Maybe some people are ok with that, but I feel more motivated to continue to accomplish things in my life. I can honestly say that the only challenge I've had is trying to figure out how to get out.
In 6 years here, I'm still an FO with no upgrade in sight. I thought it was just around the corner, but then fuel hit new records. Let me tell you, being a professional Pilot with 10 years experience making less than 40k can be very frustrating. I came into this job knowing that it would take some time and some sacrifice, but with no light at the end of the [very long] tunnel it's time to pull the plug. I'm missing out on my earning years, spending too much time away from my family, and that doesn't fit with my goals for life and retirement.
Those are the bad things, in my very humble opinion. I'm sure others will readily disagree.
The good things:
Lots of great people work here. I've met some really interesting folks along the way. It's also nice to come to work and know exactly what's expected of you. Which makes the job easy. It really is an easy job (when things go right). I think it's healthy to spend a little bit of time away from the family and do what you like. 3 days would be ok. 4 days is too much. No office politics - which is good and bad. Try working with someone who has no social skills because the job doesn't demand it. That happens, and can be tough. At the same time, you can call a spade a spade
. I never see my boss, either. That's cool. I wouldn't change the experience that I've gotten from this field for anything. Pilots in general are more pessimistic on the business, and tend to pay more attention to the details of the business than other employee groups. This gives us a more down to earth perspective than other work groups that get overly optimistic and tend to guzzle the kool aid. The best job I had was flying a Navajo in Alaska. We worked hard, flew hard, and played hard. It was also the most money I ever made. THAT was good, challenging, and rewarding flying with some absolutely amazing people.
I'm not sure what's going to happen in my quest to move on. Trying to quit has probably been the hardest thing I've ever done (odd, for a guy disappointed in the field, huh?). I guess that means that I like the job too much (and have too much invested) to just walk away. Take that as a good thing. In the mean time, I attend Grad school which offers me the mental challenge that I need (that the job doesn't offer). I guess what I'm saying is, you'll probably need to find a balance. Coming from management, I think you'll find the work to be a bit dull after a while. Once you've met your goals (which happens), what else are you going to shoot for? Outside stimulation may be the only answer, and it can be hard to multitask considering the schedule the regionals run.
Lots of people do this job, and lots of them like it. That says something. At the same time, lots of people have been very disappointed in the results. That says something, too. It's not even close to a perfect field. Keep doing your research and, if anything, just jump in with a good backup plan in hand. Like my Dad says 'if you don't do it now, you probably never will'.
09-28-2008, 08:30 AM
#34
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
I just kept reading post after post of nearly the exact same complaints and observations that I have had about aviation. My posts are not all that different from what many others here have written.
No pay.
Lack of job satisfaction.
Destruction of personal life.
Dead -End profession.
It is not your imagination. The grass is greener.
Skyhigh
No pay.
Lack of job satisfaction.
Destruction of personal life.
Dead -End profession.
It is not your imagination. The grass is greener.
Skyhigh
09-28-2008, 09:02 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Out
Posts: 448
Originally Posted by withthatsaid182
I dislike my job because:
I'm on the low end of the seniority list i.e. the last guy.
Reserve is no fun.
You are always in a hotel during those times you really need to be home.
I, along with everyone around me try to do an honest to goodness helluva job and still get paid poorly.
Taking the bus sucks.
I have to set my alarm for 0330 a lot these days.
I like my job because:
I sit on the couch a lot and then often go fly around.
At 37,000 feet I can see a load of cool looking constellations.
There's nothing like cruising around drinking coffee and seeing those constellations with your feet up and seat back.
Flying through the weather and not worrying about a your one and only engine failing, or getting too much ice, or not being able to get above/around weather.
I meet a lot of interesting people with some interesting stories.
Instead of calling them thrust reversers I call them "Buckets".
It's as close as I am going to get to being a pirate.
I get a paycheck to do it all.
I'm on the low end of the seniority list i.e. the last guy.
Reserve is no fun.
You are always in a hotel during those times you really need to be home.
I, along with everyone around me try to do an honest to goodness helluva job and still get paid poorly.
Taking the bus sucks.
I have to set my alarm for 0330 a lot these days.
I like my job because:
I sit on the couch a lot and then often go fly around.
At 37,000 feet I can see a load of cool looking constellations.
There's nothing like cruising around drinking coffee and seeing those constellations with your feet up and seat back.
Flying through the weather and not worrying about a your one and only engine failing, or getting too much ice, or not being able to get above/around weather.
I meet a lot of interesting people with some interesting stories.
Instead of calling them thrust reversers I call them "Buckets".
It's as close as I am going to get to being a pirate.
I get a paycheck to do it all.
09-28-2008, 10:52 AM
#38
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Lear 35/31 FO
Posts: 99
the main thing to dislike is wondering if your going to have a job in 6 months, a year, 3 years from now? gets old laying in bed every night hoping that the mess that this country is in is directly connected to whether or not you will be able to keep the career that you love.
09-28-2008, 11:16 AM
#39
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,945
Likes-
The people
Landing (in the Dash 8 you never master it and it always gives you something new to work on)
Some of the great approaches out there
Being able to go most anywhere most anytime for free (even though I never go anywhere but home with my family)
Some fun overnights with a great crew
Doing an overnight near my home and having my wife meet me at the hotel for a night out
The visuals, I see some of the most interesting and awe inspiring things that I cant even explain and that a picture cant even do justice
Flying in general. I truly enjoy flying (although VASTLY prefer flying GA out of my small grass strip) I rarely do not look forward to starting the day when I wake up in the morning at the hotel. Of course I would rather be home but I do not dread going to work. The crew I fly with has a great impact on this.
Being admired by people who do not know any better. Most of my friends and wifes co workers are very impressed that I am a pilot and are very curious of what I do and envious of the 100K that I pull in while traveling to exotic locations and working 12 days per month. I dont tell them the truth unless they are my close friends.
Flying new types. Every new plane I fly is a joy at first and I am always impressed and eager to tell people that when you transition from type to type the actual flying part is no difficult a transition then when you were a private pilot switching from a 152 to a 172 to a seminole. Flying is flying and once you are in the air whether it is a CRJ or a 747 the same principles apply.
Cons-
THE PAY, I make less than nothing and havent made this little since I worked at a fry dough stand in the 8th grade and even then it was close
The long days with no pay. With EWR always having edc times when we do not board the pax I will have an average of 5 hours some days over the course of the day of sitting in the airplane without the pax boarded when I am not getting paid.
The job can be extremely mundane and I at only 1 year in do not feel I can necessarily get any better at my job. I do the same basic tasks and do them well and dont see how I can do them any better. Sure of course I will gain more experience which is the whole point but after 700 hours in the plane I have a basic grasp of its capabilities and my tasks will never change. Walkaround, flows, entering data into the FMS and running checklist. Seriously, how long does it take to master the 15 tasks that I do on a given flight?
The people. I can work with the same CA for the month who is the last person I would want to ever talk to let alone sit in a cubicle for 130+ hours per month with.
Overnights with horrible crews (see above) where you go to the hotel bar and drink alone.
Commuting. I have one of the easiest commutes of anyone out there and I bring it upon myself but it still sucks the life out of me.
Dealing with the company and crew sched.
and of course paying 90 bucks for a medical every year that I may or may not pass and will end my career indefinately and the FAA who cant wait to pull my certs when I turn to a wrong heading or the AP doesnt intercept the loc and I miss it.
This list could go on forever but most has been said already
The people
Landing (in the Dash 8 you never master it and it always gives you something new to work on)
Some of the great approaches out there
Being able to go most anywhere most anytime for free (even though I never go anywhere but home with my family)
Some fun overnights with a great crew
Doing an overnight near my home and having my wife meet me at the hotel for a night out
The visuals, I see some of the most interesting and awe inspiring things that I cant even explain and that a picture cant even do justice
Flying in general. I truly enjoy flying (although VASTLY prefer flying GA out of my small grass strip) I rarely do not look forward to starting the day when I wake up in the morning at the hotel. Of course I would rather be home but I do not dread going to work. The crew I fly with has a great impact on this.
Being admired by people who do not know any better. Most of my friends and wifes co workers are very impressed that I am a pilot and are very curious of what I do and envious of the 100K that I pull in while traveling to exotic locations and working 12 days per month. I dont tell them the truth unless they are my close friends.
Flying new types. Every new plane I fly is a joy at first and I am always impressed and eager to tell people that when you transition from type to type the actual flying part is no difficult a transition then when you were a private pilot switching from a 152 to a 172 to a seminole. Flying is flying and once you are in the air whether it is a CRJ or a 747 the same principles apply.
Cons-
THE PAY, I make less than nothing and havent made this little since I worked at a fry dough stand in the 8th grade and even then it was close
The long days with no pay. With EWR always having edc times when we do not board the pax I will have an average of 5 hours some days over the course of the day of sitting in the airplane without the pax boarded when I am not getting paid.
The job can be extremely mundane and I at only 1 year in do not feel I can necessarily get any better at my job. I do the same basic tasks and do them well and dont see how I can do them any better. Sure of course I will gain more experience which is the whole point but after 700 hours in the plane I have a basic grasp of its capabilities and my tasks will never change. Walkaround, flows, entering data into the FMS and running checklist. Seriously, how long does it take to master the 15 tasks that I do on a given flight?
The people. I can work with the same CA for the month who is the last person I would want to ever talk to let alone sit in a cubicle for 130+ hours per month with.
Overnights with horrible crews (see above) where you go to the hotel bar and drink alone.
Commuting. I have one of the easiest commutes of anyone out there and I bring it upon myself but it still sucks the life out of me.
Dealing with the company and crew sched.
and of course paying 90 bucks for a medical every year that I may or may not pass and will end my career indefinately and the FAA who cant wait to pull my certs when I turn to a wrong heading or the AP doesnt intercept the loc and I miss it.
This list could go on forever but most has been said already
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
