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Clunkers for cash a scam and dangerous

Old 08-01-2009, 05:47 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY View Post
Fred wants to buy another car and is trying to decide what to buy .
BTW Why are we using taxpayer's money for people to buy foreign named cars when we schould be buying American and helping them pay off the money that they owe us TAXPAYERS ?

Ally
I know what you are saying, and I agree with your sentiment, but the idea that the taxpayers will ever see any of that money again is wishful thinking. If it ever reappears on the government balance sheet it will be rolled in to some stupid and wasteful expense. We won't get it back.

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Old 08-01-2009, 05:58 AM
  #42  
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[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by unemployedagain View Post
I read about an individual who was a graduate student, who was unemployed that went and used this program. She "admitted that she could not afford the car, yet she felt it was such a good deal".

There are so many problems with this senerio. First, has there been any screening on the ability for a car buyer to actually afford the car payments going forward?

Please advise if there was some sort of qualifying restriction on this program. I just don't see the car dealerships having the responsible where with all to institute a program and maintain the standards.
Restrictions on the program??? Uh....no more than usual for buying a car I guess. They checked my credit before I bought the car since I financed it through them. I suppse they wouldn't have done that if I had walked in with my pre-approved loan through USAA or NFCU.

This unemployed graduate student featured in the story you saw is part of the problem. It sounds like she is the typical American living on credit and buying more than they can afford. What is different in that scenario than the current housing problems?

Placing some sort of enviromental impact savings is total BS. Where is the carbon footprint data on how much is created when a automobile is produced vs. maintaining that same older car over a certain period of time. I have felt a car should last so long, much longer than what I have witnessed for the price that is being charged.
Giving a rebate, or whatever it is called for persons to buy a car using tax dollars is not responsible. Your kids, grandkids and their grandkids are going to be paying for this.
Everybody keeps talking about using tax dollars for this. I consider this a good use of tax dollars. I guess it will be a topic of contention whether this is really good for the environment. In my opinion - some are trying to argue this point on a level that I am neither interested in or smart enough to argue. Carbon footprints of building a new car or maintaining an old one? Do you have the stats to prove otherwise? Like many other deals, ideas, or programs I bet that we could each go on the internet and find articles written by **experts** praising and demonizing this program (think global warming arguments)

If this is a bad idea because they had to produce a new car in order to replace my less fuel efficient and less environmentally friendly new car that I hope to have on the road for many years to come, then repalcing your inefficient drafty windows with new ones is a bad idea too? How about the hot water heater from the 70s reaplced with a new more economical model or the washer and dryer that uses so much less detergent, and less water etc.....All of those products had to be replaced with new equipment.

They say it was a success; I believe anything that had been exhausted in a week has some serious deficencies and they should have looked at this rather than extended another 2 billion to continue.
A program having an incredible outcome is a serious deficiency? So if a company comes up with a game system (oh....XBox or PS3) and they sell out within a week then there is a problem with the system? Yeah - the problem is if this program is worth it then they made a mistake not funding it more or people made the mistake of not taking advantage of it.

I appreciate this gov't incentive. The gov't finally did something that put (or at least kept) a little bit of money in my pocket. If I'm going to get all hot over some other gov't use of taxes then I'll probably turn my attention to the TARP money by the top banks going toward the 100s of millions of dollars paid out in bonuses to their top executives!quote]

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Old 08-01-2009, 06:29 AM
  #43  
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Hi!

The program burned through the $1B in a week. Congress just authorized another $2B.

It sounds like the program is going well and a pretty good idea, since both the far right and the far left both hate the program a lot.

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Old 08-01-2009, 06:38 AM
  #44  
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Hi!

Ally, I think you are talking about "small" cars being "unsafe". (and green cars aren't necessarily small, and vice versa).

Trick question:
Which is safer (less deaths per 100,000 miles driven):
Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Ford Expedition, Chevy Suburban?

Answer: None of the above. They all have about the same death rate per 100,000 miles driven.

Safest would be a large sedan: Toyota/Lexus/Infiniti/Buick, etc.

cliff
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Old 08-01-2009, 04:07 PM
  #45  
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[quote=USMCFLYR;654375]

Restrictions on the program??? Uh....no more than usual for buying a car I guess. They checked my credit before I bought the car since I financed it through them. I suppse they wouldn't have done that if I had walked in with my pre-approved loan through USAA or NFCU.

This unemployed graduate student featured in the story you saw is part of the problem. It sounds like she is the typical American living on credit and buying more than they can afford. What is different in that scenario than the current housing problems?




Everybody keeps talking about using tax dollars for this. I consider this a good use of tax dollars. I guess it will be a topic of contention whether this is really good for the environment. In my opinion - some are trying to argue this point on a level that I am neither interested in or smart enough to argue. Carbon footprints of building a new car or maintaining an old one? Do you have the stats to prove otherwise? Like many other deals, ideas, or programs I bet that we could each go on the internet and find articles written by **experts** praising and demonizing this program (think global warming arguments)

If this is a bad idea because they had to produce a new car in order to replace my less fuel efficient and less environmentally friendly new car that I hope to have on the road for many years to come, then repalcing your inefficient drafty windows with new ones is a bad idea too? How about the hot water heater from the 70s reaplced with a new more economical model or the washer and dryer that uses so much less detergent, and less water etc.....All of those products had to be replaced with new equipment.


A program having an incredible outcome is a serious deficiency? So if a company comes up with a game system (oh....XBox or PS3) and they sell out within a week then there is a problem with the system? Yeah - the problem is if this program is worth it then they made a mistake not funding it more or people made the mistake of not taking advantage of it.

I appreciate this gov't incentive. The gov't finally did something that put (or at least kept) a little bit of money in my pocket. If I'm going to get all hot over some other gov't use of taxes then I'll probably turn my attention to the TARP money by the top banks going toward the 100s of millions of dollars paid out in bonuses to their top executives!quote]

USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR, not picking on you, but think of it this way. Since our government is broke, our country is borrowing money -- A LOT of money. And the interest rates are costing us A LOT of money just to borrow the money we don't have. So, essentially your tax incentive will be paid by your kids kids generation. Thank them for your new car because even if we took all of the money from the rich, our government still wouldn't have a positive cash flow.

Additionally, people are thinking that they are getting an incentive to purchase a car. In essence, they are. But in disguise, this is yet another bailout for the automakers and we all remember just how popular those were.
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Old 08-01-2009, 04:37 PM
  #46  
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[quote=KC10 FATboy;654614]
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post

USMCFLYR, not picking on you, but think of it this way. Since our government is broke, our country is borrowing money -- A LOT of money. And the interest rates are costing us A LOT of money just to borrow the money we don't have. So, essentially your tax incentive will be paid by your kids kids generation. Thank them for your new car because even if we took all of the money from the rich, our government still wouldn't have a positive cash flow.

Additionally, people are thinking that they are getting an incentive to purchase a car. In essence, they are. But in disguise, this is yet another bailout for the automakers and we all remember just how popular those were.
There are numerous tax incentives that are given by the gov't every day. This one happen to fit in with my plans. It worked for me. If that rebate is going to be paid for by my kids - that $1,000 extra dollars I got vice taking my time to try and sell it on the open market - then I hear by deem them free to not pay one month of nursing home care for me in the future

Sorry KC10 - some of the arguments that have been presented on here on way to far out there on the MACRO level to really make a difference in my little corner of the world. They always say that just do a little bit yourself and it will add up. Well...I'm taking that advice. Some supposedly smart people decided that it would be worthwhile to put this program in place. It benefited me. I took advantage of it. If the program is still in effect come the time to purchase my next car then I will be taking advantage of it again if it fits into my plan.

I don't fill picked on with these discussions. Some of the points are good. others are too far out to prove one way or the other like I said in a previous post. I also posted a few other uses of tax payers money that I would be MUCH more worried about than CARS; if someone was truly pre-disposed to worrying about such things.

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Old 08-01-2009, 05:25 PM
  #47  
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[quote=USMCFLYR;654626]
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy View Post

There are numerous tax incentives that are given by the gov't every day. This one happen to fit in with my plans. It worked for me. If that rebate is going to be paid for by my kids - that $1,000 extra dollars I got vice taking my time to try and sell it on the open market - then I hear by deem them free to not pay one month of nursing home care for me in the future

Sorry KC10 - some of the arguments that have been presented on here on way to far out there on the MACRO level to really make a difference in my little corner of the world. They always say that just do a little bit yourself and it will add up. Well...I'm taking that advice. Some supposedly smart people decided that it would be worthwhile to put this program in place. It benefited me. I took advantage of it. If the program is still in effect come the time to purchase my next car then I will be taking advantage of it again if it fits into my plan.

I don't fill picked on with these discussions. Some of the points are good. others are too far out to prove one way or the other like I said in a previous post. I also posted a few other uses of tax payers money that I would be MUCH more worried about than CARS; if someone was truly pre-disposed to worrying about such things.

USMCFLYR
FLYR, I do not blame you for taking advantage of the program; I wish I could and owned a clunker. The program is overpaying for cars that have no real value, no return and this is not an investment as some of the past practice of government loans. This is a car bailout; plane and simple. Some may benefit personally, but others will be put into a pinch if their situation changes. This is the american way.
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Old 08-01-2009, 05:52 PM
  #48  
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[quote=unemployedagain;654643]
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
FLYR, I do not blame you for taking advantage of the program; I wish I could and owned a clunker....Some may benefit personally, but others will be put into a pinch if their situation changes. This is the american way.
I've many times wanted to live "the American way" but have stuck to my guns. If anyone is abusing the program - and by that I mean buying when they shouldn't or more than they should - then that is a personal financial decision that they will have to deal with in the end. I'm a responsible consumer; I take care of my own house and make sure that my financial decisions are sound. Heck - I wish I could have bought that G37 hard-top convertible that had my name on it!

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Old 08-01-2009, 07:45 PM
  #49  
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USMC ... I am not faulting you so please don't feel that way. And if I made you feel that way, I apologize. Heck, if I need a new car, I *might* consider it.

However, this program was NOT designed for the consumer, it was designed for the manufacturers.

A vehicle has an environmental impact far beyond it's MPGs. The environmental impact of manufacturing, transporting, and marketing of a vehicle must be included. You will have to use that new fuel efficient car for a very very long time in order for the environmental benefit to pay off. How long depends on what car you threw away and what car you purchased.

Here's what makes me sore about this program, despite that it's another government program running us into even more debt, the cars are being thrown away -- not recycled. I mean, come on. If we are doing this program to save the environment, why are they throwing them away? The parts suppliers have been completely cut out of the profit equation and as such, this program impacts the environment even more.
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Old 08-01-2009, 08:00 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy View Post
USMC ... I am not faulting you so please don't feel that way. And if I made you feel that way, I apologize. Heck, if I need a new car, I *might* consider it.

However, this program was NOT designed for the consumer, it was designed for the manufacturers.

A vehicle has an environmental impact far beyond it's MPGs. The environmental impact of manufacturing, transporting, and marketing of a vehicle must be included. You will have to use that new fuel efficient car for a very very long time in order for the environmental benefit to pay off. How long depends on what car you threw away and what car you purchased.

Here's what makes me sore about this program, despite that it's another government program running us into even more debt, the cars are being thrown away -- not recycled. I mean, come on. If we are doing this program to save the environment, why are they throwing them away? The parts suppliers have been completely cut out of the profit equation and as such, this program impacts the environment even more.
I don't think anyone is attacking me.
EVERYTHING has to be replaced. New products have to be produced. Whether it is that old light bulb being replaced for a newer one that is all twisted, I said this in a previous post. Of course it takes resources to build a new car. What more efficient product does not? New cars will be made. New cars will be sold. I got rid of a LESS efficient car for a cleaner and MORE efficient car. I have affected what I can affect - and I will hopefully be doing it cleaner and more efficiently; plus this car is much safer than my Mustang too!

ONLY the engine and the drivetrain can not be REUSED, but that doesn't mean that other parts can't be recycled, and I'm sure the engine and drivetrain could be recycled or they will be part of a very nice golf course - maybe even on an AFB somewhere!! The salvage company probably makes out better than anyone else. My Mustang weighed 4,500 lbs (2.24 tons) and IF I get that check from them for the value of my salvage (minus the $50 the dealer gets for "administrative purposes") then they will probably have paid me $75 per ton. What is that - $168.75? I'm pretty sure that they will be able to salvage parts off that car worth more than that!

As far as another gov't program running us into further into debt - well I have already given examples in previous posts of other programs that don't seem to be helping me much on a personal level and are costing many times the cost of this one. Like I said -this one worked out good for me and alot of others so far. Let's hope this program ends up with some much need good intentions when it is all said and done.

As far as you using the program - if you go down to a dealer and then meet all the requirements for the program and CHOSE NOT TO TAKE THE REBATE - then I'll be the first to pat you on the back and say that you are a person who can stand up for his beliefs. In this case - I happen to have different beliefs I guess.

USMCFLYR

Btw - if I came across gov't rebate or tax incentives that would save me money on new appliances, windows, heating systems, washer and dryers, light bulbs, or even changing the temperature setting in my house (when I get one) - I'll be taking advantage of every one available - am I'm pretty sure that most others would too.
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