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Tool of the day

Old 02-25-2014, 12:27 PM
  #5001  
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Originally Posted by CheapTrick View Post
Yep, this "wisdom" ****es me off a little too. At my large airline, time gets you the opportunity to apply for the 4th stripe. However, they do not give it away. You are going to have to get past the gatekeepers who diligently make sure you have the goods to sit in the left seat. It is earned even if you are so good that you make it look easy. You weren't born good. You worked to get good. That means you earned it.
I'll walk back my post a bit as is seems to have come across wrong...especially my last sentence.

My intent was to say that getting the opportunity to be the captain takes time. The opportunity isn't anymore merit based than your qualifications to be FO. If you are able to hold captain after the latest bid and you bid it, you will be scheduled for training. The earning of that opportunity is the time you put in. Even if you are the most dangerous FO on property, if you are free and clear of any issues, you will go to training to be a captain. That is the earning and merit I was speaking to.

That being said, your progress through training and subsequent check ride are obviously based on knowledge and performance.

No attitude here gentlemen. I'm just pointing out the interaction of time/seniority and contractual entitlements as they relate to upgrading. I apologize for the confusion caused by my previous post.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:44 PM
  #5002  
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Originally Posted by CheapTrick View Post
Yep, this "wisdom" ****es me off a little too. At my large airline, time gets you the opportunity to apply for the 4th stripe. However, they do not give it away. You are going to have to get past the gatekeepers who diligently make sure you have the goods to sit in the left seat. It is earned even if you are so good that you make it look easy. You weren't born good. You worked to get good. That means you earned it.
Getting a type and upgrading isn't that difficult it's a 4 week crash course. We're not talking about OCS here, it's airline training.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:28 PM
  #5003  
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Originally Posted by CanoePilot View Post
Getting a type and upgrading isn't that difficult it's a 4 week crash course. We're not talking about OCS here, it's airline training.
You certainly can go buy a type rating. My airline had a guy who did just to move from the 727 panel to MD F/O. He still couldn't make it through the airline's F/O training. When the last 727 was gone, so was he.

"Captain" isn't earned? YGBSM.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:58 PM
  #5004  
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Originally Posted by thevagabond View Post
Indeed. Too many forklift drivers although their ranks are small thank goodness.
Saw an article in the WSJ about a forklift driver shortage
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:14 PM
  #5005  
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Originally Posted by CanoePilot View Post
Getting a type and upgrading isn't that difficult it's a 4 week crash course. We're not talking about OCS here, it's airline training.
When I got my fourth stripe it wasn't, as you refer to it, as a "crash course". The examination process consisted of a one day written exam, one day oral, four hour sim check, and the easy part... bounces in the jet. Back in the day, you had to know details as the manufacturers of the CSD, Generators, Nav systems. One had to explain the ratio of the lockout of the outboard ailerons whilst the flaps were extending and retracting on the old 727 during the walk around. OCS training? no. Know your aircraft? You bet!
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:54 PM
  #5006  
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Can we get on with tool of the day instead of tool measuring?
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:58 PM
  #5007  
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Originally Posted by captjns View Post
When I got my fourth stripe it wasn't, as you refer to it, as a "crash course". The examination process consisted of a one day written exam, one day oral, four hour sim check, and the easy part... bounces in the jet. Back in the day, you had to know details as the manufacturers of the CSD, Generators, Nav systems. One had to explain the ratio of the lockout of the outboard ailerons whilst the flaps were extending and retracting on the old 727 during the walk around. OCS training? no. Know your aircraft? You bet!
Thankfully those days are over and knowing what kind of blots hold the engine on the pylon is useless info. Training is more practical in this day in age and not ego driven by a few eggheads in the training department.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:21 PM
  #5008  
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Originally Posted by CanoePilot View Post
Getting a type and upgrading isn't that difficult it's a 4 week crash course. We're not talking about OCS here, it's airline training.
OCS wasn't that hard either Einstein. You really need to learn when to stop digging.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:29 PM
  #5009  
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Originally Posted by CanoePilot View Post
Thankfully those days are over and knowing what kind of blots hold the engine on the pylon is useless info. Training is more practical in this day in age and not ego driven by a few eggheads in the training department.
You're young (obviously). There is no such thing as "useless info" when it concerns your aircraft. There might not be anything you can necessarily do about a particular malfunction, but by having the level of systems knowledge that Captjns talks about, you can KNOW how your craft has been affected by the loss of a system or component. What you are alluding to is one of the things that are eroding the importance of our profession. Pilots are becoming button pushing monkeys. When all you have to do is read a checklist, and push the right button or throw the right switch, and live with the consequences of those actions; an intelligent thinking being at the controls is really not necessary. Couple that with dispatch making your divert decisions for you and what are we left with? Maybe you are comfortable with that. Frankly, I'm not. Over the North Atlantic in the middle of the night, as a passenger I would want to believe that there is a competent individual at the controls, not just someone that had a "crash course" in flying. Perhaps it is coming to that, and you as a "professional" feel that minimal knowledge about your aircraft is sufficient. If that is the case and that feeling is more rampant out there, it does not bode well for the future of this industry as a well paying one. Anybody that can read will do. As a matter of fact, they could put 1 "captain" onboard, and sell the FO seat to anybody that can read and is willing to sit up front for the entire flight...

Oh, and what's a "blot"?
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:41 PM
  #5010  
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I flew the 727 and DC-8. Now I'm a button pushing monkey. Took me six months to figure out why I was pushing some of the buttons. I know very little of how the systems work.
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