Time to Jump ship from Hawaiian?
03-13-2019 | 10:36 AM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Believe me, my concern is not just SWA. IMHO, we’ve hit critical mass here. SWA is just “one more” nail in the proverbial lid. SWA is just the latest company to make a run on Hawaii.
I agree, we’ve got a great, possibly the best product in the Western world. It’s a great bunch of people. When I say we’ve hit critical mass, the world has grown up around us and by default we’ve gotten too small.
Sooner or later, everything has to change. My fear is that if we don’t adapt and overcome, AKA merge and get bigger, One of these days one of the big four could simply fart and blow us off the map. Nothing lasts
Forever. Let’s face it, we’ve had an 89 year run so far and are still basically the original incarnation of the founding day. That’s unheard of nowadays.
Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t want to merge with someone. Honestly though, I think our only two choices at this stage are to merge and move on, or go the way of eastern, Pan Am, or TWA. I only see one of those two outcomes in the next 5 to 10 years. Given the choice, I’ll take the merge.
03-13-2019 | 11:34 AM
#163
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Believe me, my concern is not just SWA. IMHO, we’ve hit critical mass here. SWA is just “one more” nail in the proverbial lid. SWA is just the latest company to make a run on Hawaii.
I agree, we’ve got a great, possibly the best product in the Western world. It’s a great bunch of people. When I say we’ve hit critical mass, the world has grown up around us and by default we’ve gotten too small.
Sooner or later, everything has to change. My fear is that if we don’t adapt and overcome, AKA merge and get bigger, One of these days one of the big four could simply fart and blow us off the map. Nothing lasts
Forever. Let’s face it, we’ve had an 89 year run so far and are still basically the original incarnation of the founding day. That’s unheard of nowadays.
Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t want to merge with someone. Honestly though, I think our only two choices at this stage are to merge and move on, or go the way of eastern, Pan Am, or TWA. I only see one of those two outcomes in the next 5 to 10 years. Given the choice, I’ll take the merge.
I agree, we’ve got a great, possibly the best product in the Western world. It’s a great bunch of people. When I say we’ve hit critical mass, the world has grown up around us and by default we’ve gotten too small.
Sooner or later, everything has to change. My fear is that if we don’t adapt and overcome, AKA merge and get bigger, One of these days one of the big four could simply fart and blow us off the map. Nothing lasts
Forever. Let’s face it, we’ve had an 89 year run so far and are still basically the original incarnation of the founding day. That’s unheard of nowadays.
Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t want to merge with someone. Honestly though, I think our only two choices at this stage are to merge and move on, or go the way of eastern, Pan Am, or TWA. I only see one of those two outcomes in the next 5 to 10 years. Given the choice, I’ll take the merge.
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03-13-2019 | 03:00 PM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Believe me, my concern is not just SWA. IMHO, we’ve hit critical mass here. SWA is just “one more” nail in the proverbial lid. SWA is just the latest company to make a run on Hawaii.
I agree, we’ve got a great, possibly the best product in the Western world. It’s a great bunch of people. When I say we’ve hit critical mass, the world has grown up around us and by default we’ve gotten too small.
Sooner or later, everything has to change. My fear is that if we don’t adapt and overcome, AKA merge and get bigger, One of these days one of the big four could simply fart and blow us off the map. Nothing lasts
Forever. Let’s face it, we’ve had an 89 year run so far and are still basically the original incarnation of the founding day. That’s unheard of nowadays.
Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t want to merge with someone. Honestly though, I think our only two choices at this stage are to merge and move on, or go the way of eastern, Pan Am, or TWA. I only see one of those two outcomes in the next 5 to 10 years. Given the choice, I’ll take the merge.
I agree, we’ve got a great, possibly the best product in the Western world. It’s a great bunch of people. When I say we’ve hit critical mass, the world has grown up around us and by default we’ve gotten too small.
Sooner or later, everything has to change. My fear is that if we don’t adapt and overcome, AKA merge and get bigger, One of these days one of the big four could simply fart and blow us off the map. Nothing lasts
Forever. Let’s face it, we’ve had an 89 year run so far and are still basically the original incarnation of the founding day. That’s unheard of nowadays.
Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t want to merge with someone. Honestly though, I think our only two choices at this stage are to merge and move on, or go the way of eastern, Pan Am, or TWA. I only see one of those two outcomes in the next 5 to 10 years. Given the choice, I’ll take the merge.
03-13-2019 | 05:35 PM
#165
Banned
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,347
Likes: 329
Lots of good points from my HAL brothers.
After a couple nights of sleeping on this, I’m still convinced at least for the first couple of years the pilots that need to be worried have an Eskimo on their tail. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Alaska backing out some, and doing a couple more flights to Guadalajara every day like they used to before they found HI.
SWA guys still plenty welcome on the jumpseat. Lord knows I’ve Jumped on you guys many times in the past. Let’s keep this civil and let our managements figure it out.
Kingairfun really brings up some great points. Other airlines can bring all the planes out here they want to, but if they don’t have any place to park them it’s not going to help. Gate space at the Hawaii airports ALREADY looks like the parking lot of an outlet mall on Black Friday. That’s on a normal day.
Inter island will be more competitive, but from the mainland southwest passengers and Hawaiian passengers are two different types of people. NOTE: This is not a slam of anyone’s passengers. It’s a simple statement of fact. The target off of the mainland is Alaska, not Hawaiian. Like Kingair says, Most passengers that fly Hawaiian fly because they like Hawaiian not because they are chasing low fares. They are after a specific product.
With that said. No one does what Southwest does better than Southwest. At the same time, no one does what Hawaiian does better than Hawaiian. There’s room for both of us. It’s the others that should be worried.
Let’s give this a year or two and see where it shakes out. Until then, you guys might want to take this to the Alaska sub forum.
After a couple nights of sleeping on this, I’m still convinced at least for the first couple of years the pilots that need to be worried have an Eskimo on their tail. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Alaska backing out some, and doing a couple more flights to Guadalajara every day like they used to before they found HI.
SWA guys still plenty welcome on the jumpseat. Lord knows I’ve Jumped on you guys many times in the past. Let’s keep this civil and let our managements figure it out.
Kingairfun really brings up some great points. Other airlines can bring all the planes out here they want to, but if they don’t have any place to park them it’s not going to help. Gate space at the Hawaii airports ALREADY looks like the parking lot of an outlet mall on Black Friday. That’s on a normal day.
Inter island will be more competitive, but from the mainland southwest passengers and Hawaiian passengers are two different types of people. NOTE: This is not a slam of anyone’s passengers. It’s a simple statement of fact. The target off of the mainland is Alaska, not Hawaiian. Like Kingair says, Most passengers that fly Hawaiian fly because they like Hawaiian not because they are chasing low fares. They are after a specific product.
With that said. No one does what Southwest does better than Southwest. At the same time, no one does what Hawaiian does better than Hawaiian. There’s room for both of us. It’s the others that should be worried.
Let’s give this a year or two and see where it shakes out. Until then, you guys might want to take this to the Alaska sub forum.
03-15-2019 | 05:19 AM
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
What I think-
Think RASM.
Big driver for airlines and their shareholders is RASM. Gotta increase RASM in any way possible. However, flights from mainland to/from the islands are RASM killers. They are some very long stage lengths. So, how do you offset that?
These flights are frequent flyer miles/points cache dumps. A significant amount of miles/points are used during trips to/from the islands, and the airlines love shedding those miles off their books. This way the airlines can keep higher fares on shorter flights with any significant higher RASM. Think MSY around Mardi Gras, AUS during SXSW, LAS for CES, Super Bowl, or any other event that creates a big spike in demand for air travel (thus higher fares). In addition to a significantly higher fare, increased service also is common to these high yield events. For example, what was once a 3x/day service now becomes a 5x/day and the airlines ASM increases by 66% with a RASM increase of 85%, (hypothetically). If passengers use miles/points during these high yield events destroys RASM. Especially when the airline advertises “No Black Out Days!”
But with the addition of Hawaii flights, there will now be significantly less miles/points for customers to burn through.
The actual cash money brought in by AAL, UAL, DAL, AAG, etc is significantly lower, when considering the distance flown.
The only real revenue generation with these flights comes in the freight/mail in the belly.
Think RASM.
Big driver for airlines and their shareholders is RASM. Gotta increase RASM in any way possible. However, flights from mainland to/from the islands are RASM killers. They are some very long stage lengths. So, how do you offset that?
These flights are frequent flyer miles/points cache dumps. A significant amount of miles/points are used during trips to/from the islands, and the airlines love shedding those miles off their books. This way the airlines can keep higher fares on shorter flights with any significant higher RASM. Think MSY around Mardi Gras, AUS during SXSW, LAS for CES, Super Bowl, or any other event that creates a big spike in demand for air travel (thus higher fares). In addition to a significantly higher fare, increased service also is common to these high yield events. For example, what was once a 3x/day service now becomes a 5x/day and the airlines ASM increases by 66% with a RASM increase of 85%, (hypothetically). If passengers use miles/points during these high yield events destroys RASM. Especially when the airline advertises “No Black Out Days!”
But with the addition of Hawaii flights, there will now be significantly less miles/points for customers to burn through.
The actual cash money brought in by AAL, UAL, DAL, AAG, etc is significantly lower, when considering the distance flown.
The only real revenue generation with these flights comes in the freight/mail in the belly.
03-15-2019 | 05:44 PM
#167
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
You do realize we aren't using the MAX for Hawaii - right?
03-15-2019 | 06:27 PM
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
But you DO realize the planes you are/were going to fly to Hawaii are probably partially predicated being freed up by MAX operations. Looks like you guys might be short on planes for a bit to start a new route, unless you draw down somewhere else.
Good chance some of your Hawaii planes may need to remain on their current route until the MAX is de-bugged. Key word is “may”.
Granted, there were delays with the A321 also. Boeing will get this fixed.
Who knows. Time will tell.
03-15-2019 | 08:17 PM
#169
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 997
Likes: 68
If the MAX is down for an extended amount of time, NG retirements will be halted.
03-15-2019 | 08:23 PM
#170
Banned
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
So... new goal...
How many SWA guys can we get to comment on HA and AK threads...
For an airline that does really well, you guys sure get defensive if anyone makes a negative comment.
And the MAX was never intended for Hawaii? Phoenix, Denver.. all those possible route talks are for the -700/-800? I was under the impression the MAX was destined for Hawaii eventually?
Either way, does not matter. Best of luck on your Hawaii flying, your OAK crew room has given you quite the rep over here. What was gonna be friendly competition will probably turn ugly. We knew a percentage of your pax were of low class, but the pilots are starting to look that way as well.
How many SWA guys can we get to comment on HA and AK threads...
For an airline that does really well, you guys sure get defensive if anyone makes a negative comment.
And the MAX was never intended for Hawaii? Phoenix, Denver.. all those possible route talks are for the -700/-800? I was under the impression the MAX was destined for Hawaii eventually?
Either way, does not matter. Best of luck on your Hawaii flying, your OAK crew room has given you quite the rep over here. What was gonna be friendly competition will probably turn ugly. We knew a percentage of your pax were of low class, but the pilots are starting to look that way as well.
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