kingairfun

I used to have a good idea of how many they interviewed (roughly) vs. how many applied.. And out of those interviewed how many make it to a class... Unfortunately I have since forgotten the percentages...

The best I can rememeber is we figured they interviewed maybe 400-500 people... (seemed like 30-35 interviewees a week for most of summer 2012 plus any random interviews through Fall etc.. ) Out of those I believe they hired 70 , give or take, so far (rough estimate without a seniority list in front of me)

I don't recall hearing about too many "thanks but no thanks" replies here or anywhere else. So I always assumed that NEARLy everyone interviewed is ranked and has a shot, just depends on Hawaiians needs and where you fall on the list. (which is the super secret part we are all curious about!)

As far as increasing the chances for a Phase III, I really have no idea how to go about submitting an update and getting Hawaiian to notice a new type and move you up the list... Where you fall on the "list" seems to be the silver bullet.. If they were to flush the "pool" and re-interview again, I assume a 320 type would be a major plus, but right now, or how to get them to push you forward is anyones guess...

I've never flown with anyone who knew much about the hiring practices or how they decide.. (I've flown with senior Captains who have a son or daughter hoping to fly for Hawaiian and even they just try to introduce them to the CP or DO etc... And then just play the waiting game)


Please remember I am junior here still and don't have all the ins and outs of Hawaiian figured out yet. I'm sure there is somebody here or somewhere that has much more thorough knowledge of how it's done.. (I just haven't met anyone yet who knows.. The usual response I get when the hiring conversation comes up is "Pure F%%ing Magic"

So take this all with a grain of salt... For all I know you could call and tell them you have a 320 type and be in class in 2 weeks..

When I interviewed and before I got lucky, I tried to just tell myself... "If I don't get called it's not anything I did wrong, it's that too many other people just did it a bit better. I prepared extensively for the interview, so if it didn't work out atleast I knew I tried my best (Grandma in my ear). It could be something small like another intervewee having something really in common with a panel person and that may just put them 1 notch ahead. ( I once did a regional interview where the CP was from the same town as a girl I had dated, and still hung out with occasionally. Really broke the ice kinda of thing since I knew all the landmarkss etc..)

From all angles, it appears that as long as those NEO's show up on time, at some point in hopefully 2015/16, there will be a few hundred more new hires added..

Hope it helps a bit, if I ever run across someone who can shed light on the whole process more accurately, or how to increase your chances, I'll be sure to pass on the info.

Two-percent

Sounds like a good place to work. They hire a lot of locals. I even heard of a pilot couple from the islands who were having a tough time because the husband was offered the HA job and his wife was not because she absolutely struggled in the simulator (interview portion). Eventually they both said AMF. I have a few friends who work there and they all say you better be sure you want to live there. I visited often, imagined myself living there, and decided my family probably could not hack it (I could). My USairways buddies flying out there every week made it seem like that was a good option. Just visit. It sounds like Hawaiian will be competing for people just like everyone else in a few years. No more 5 interviews to "make sure you really want it".

CATIII

I've so far flown with 8 different captains in my 2 months on the 330, of which 5 of them were commuters, including one who's an instructor. The idea that they won't hire you if you're not a local or willing to move to Oahu is left over maybe from the late 90's when they were losing pilots left and right to the other majors... those days are gone now, and HAL pays the same money, has roughly the same work rules, and in some ways better career expectations than many of the rest.

Will the hiring at DAL, WN, UA, AA and such make it harder to recruit and keep pilots? sure... will it be impossible, far from it.

kingairfun

From what I have run into this year, a majority of those being hired actually live on the mainland. Most that I talk to did have some sort of Hawaii connection, used to work for Aloha, or had family here/used to live here. And a large amount of Captains I fly with do in fact commute. Enough so that I don't always assume they live in Hawaii...

Hawaiian does offer unique career opportunities that no other mainline carrier offers. Primarily widebody international off the bat. And what seems to be a shorter upgrade than most.. (not gonna hold my breathe on that of course as things change on a dime). Also, if need be, a way to be home every night doing interisland..

Our trips are generally 3 day, some 4 and occasional 5 day trips.. I do primarily 3 day trips which seems like a walk in the park. I get home and feel like I was barely gone at all.

Hawaiian may be a very small major carrier, but it offers a very unique QOL. Moving to Hawaii can be difficult, some adapt and some don't.. My family and I adapted very well even before Hawaiian called. It took about 6 months of adjusting to being away from family/friends, but once we started making new friends, assimilating into the neighborhood it really became home tom me..

captfurlough

I don't want to be a contrarian but I'm not sure that I agree with the assessment that almost everyone hired recently has been from the mainland. I think that may be true of certain classes, but not necessarily true as a whole with new hires over the last year or 18 months. In addition, as I've mentioned in previous posts, those of you who commute will find it does affect your quality of life, at least in the long run. Yes, there are a number of guys who do it, and yes, it can be done. I would suggest however, that those who live on the island have a better quality of life and schedule.
As an example, if you chose to commute and bunch up your work days to extend your stay on the mainland, be prepared for some back to back trips on the back side of the clock...after three or so of these...you're going to feel it.
My suggestion to those of you who want to consider Hawaiian is this...think of the long term opportunity here, and think in terms of how much you want THIS job, not just an airline job. There will be plenty of those out there on the mainland.

CATIII

Of which you may still in effect have to commute unless you live at one of their bases.

I have dozens of friends that I am in touch with who work at other airlines, I'd say more than half are commuting.

Commuting IS, and ALWAYS has been part of the perks of being an airline pilot. A guy can live in Rifle Colorado, Dothan Alabama, or Hilo and work for any airline... the only cost is days off burned in the commute, which clearly isn't a problem for many. In my case, I live in a major west coast city served by HAL, so my commute is frankly the easiest I've had since I've started flying for the airlines in 1995.

Even on Interisland, I was able to make it work, just not as well as on WW.. But there are several II captains who are junior and commuters and they love their job and schedule from talking to them.

For the life of me, I don't understand why "some" make such a huge deal out of commuting at Hawaiian... especially when so many are doing it day in and day out without even the basic benefit of a commuter policy which is now industry standard at all other airlines.

If you want to work for a great airline, fly nice relatively new, safe and well maintained aircraft, all over the Pacific, get paid industry standard wages,.. in my eyes there is no better job.

To tell people that you have to move here to work here smacks of a "it's our thing" or "foreigners need no apply" mentality, which makes no sense in today's airline industry, does a disservice to our airline's ability to recruit the best pilots for our rapid growth and compete with the likes of DAL, UAL, AA, and Alaska for those pilots.

captfurlough

Let's get this straight CAT 3...no one, and certainly not me, has said that it's a "our thing" or "foreigners need not apply mentality." Don't twist my words or attempt to put words in my mouth. I said what I said and stand by it as a caution to some applicants, who like others I hear talk in the pilot lounge, have voiced some level of griping about their commutes. We have had some guys quit after commuting, and the rumor mill has at least one other guy openly griping and saying he intends to leave. Commuting is usually not easy, and almost always adds time and complexity to work schedules, and can...repeat can...have an impact on your freshness for duty. And again, I stand by my comment that for most folks, your best quality of life will probably be achieved by living close to the action. By the way...I've been in the business for 35 years...seldom have I heard someone say good things about having to commute over time.

If commuting works for you CAT 3 great...but all applicants should think through the repercussions in their case without expectations that bidding or scheduling will make it a piece of cake. And I'm not sure I'd take a job with the thought that the company should adapt a "standard commuting policy"....if you're lucky enough to be offered a job under the terms and conditions of the current working agreement, and it works for you...go for it!



Commute all you want....but this is a longer commute than most you refer to for mainline pilots on the mainland.

CATIII

I don't mean to turn this into an argument with you as I know you're trying to inform (as I am).

We just simply disagree and I'm here to counter what I believe is misinformation. There are many prospective pilots who read this and might walk away with the idea "main lander need not apply", or HAL doesn't want you if you live outside of Hawaii.

We must be talking to different people, because I don't hear any one complaining about their commute... when I talk to people , and everyone knows I'm a commuter. If anything I am running into more and more people considering moving away and doing it... Two A330 FO's and one InterIsland CA come to mind from recent conversations. As you know, Vancouver WA has more than 10 of our pilots living there just for tax reasons, not to mention the number in Vegas, SF, LA, and SEA.

There are also a boatload of commuters from the Big Island, and other neighbor islands... that's as much a hassle as commuting from the west coast sometimes with as full as the flights get.

Looking back 18 months that I can, I've seen one quit to go to Fedex and that's about it.. two fired on probation. So maybe in the past it was more a problem, but I'd say that was more likely due to the perception that a job at DAL, UAL etc.. might have been more secure or paid better.. both of which aren't so true anymore.


Says you... I've been doing it for years and it's working fine for me. I know many, many, many others who feel the same way.

121? Commuting for any of those years? Where may I ask?

And here lies the rub... you don't want people who commute to *GASP* ask for any accommodations for it... well, HAL is right now the ONLY legacy airline with no language or policies commuters... and a j/s policy that's not friendly to commuters.. guys including myself make it work... it gets much easier to as you get seniority, as with anything.

As the airline grows and more and more commuters work for us, this "may" change, but your right, sign up for the current CBA and work rules... Over time, who knows what might happen.

Like I said, all carriers have a large number of commuters, it's the industry, Hawaiian is no different.. If you are based in ATL and live in any secondary city in the US, you have a worse commute (two leg) than anyone living on the west coast would for HAL... a one leg 5 hours flight (many times in the lower rest crew module sleeping) is a lot better than taking a commuter flight and connection to a major airport on the mainland (east bound).. I've done it, and I know many who do it now... UAL, AA, DAL, WN, and so on... SURE it's better to live at base, that's no different for HAL than any other carrier tho... but it's guys like you that paint this picture of HAL being so tough to commute for, when it's frankly easier than most since a) it's west bound, b)there' a TON of capacity from the west coast.

I've spent years doing east coast commutes... I've worked for ACMI's with 18 day on schedules... this place is a dream compared! I know guys at Atlas who have identical schedules to mine, but would give their left nut to trade jobs, and I'm still very junior.

BTW...
The MEC chairman, the Vice Chair, as well as the scheduling committee chair is a all commuters..

Maybe they should reconsider working for HAL? or move to Oahu (which is already over crowded)?

captfurlough

I see you're the campaign chairman for commuters....and that's OK.. but you're reading more into what I wrote than is actually on the page. Again, I stand by every word of what I wrote, and it's based on my experience every bit as much as you are basing your opinion on yours.

I'm here to offer a counter point to your broad brush strokes because commuting may not work out to be a cake walk for some of those considering employment with Hawaiian. It's not necessarily the same as commuting on the mainland because it's a minimum 5 1/2 hour commute, and in fact FAR 117 tries to address some of the time zone changes issues. As for some of the people you've mentioned, I've flown with many of them, and some of them have from time to time remarked about the downside of commuting...they accept it....they choose to....and again that's OK. And in case you missed it, the SEA base closure and LAX before it created HUGE animosity and frustration...because it turned guys into commuters.

I never said it can't be done, or shouldn't be done. I have said that if you want to get the most out of flying for HAL, consider living in the islands. I will say if you join Hawaiian, don't expect the airline to adjust to you by accommodating special needs of commuters...it's not a right.....it's a privilege and there's a commensurate responsibility....to show up well rested and ready for the duty that follows. (I know you will do so...this is not an attempt to impune your professionalism.)

I think it's time to give this one a rest.

For the record, yes, 35 years + in 121, on the mainland and in the islands.

sidestep

Rumor is Class of 7 to start Nov. 22.