Is sexism/racism still an issue?
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,383
Is sexism/racism still an issue?
It all depends on what side of the equation that you fall. Lots of variables there. You would have to see it from both sides to truly understand. This is something that no one can truly accomplish.
It is also highly dependent on corporate culture at specific companies. A fair amount of larger companies make a point of getting their "tokens" to address any implication of sexism/racism.
I have seen a fair amount of diversity at the smaller operators that I have worked at. Is there still sexism/racism? You bet, when not in an audience that demands "PC" behavior, there is still a lot of nasty rhetoric that follows the typical stereotypic attitudes. Day to day, probably not as much as in the past.
I find it hilarious that most people that deny the existence of racism/sexism are for the most part 100 % not in any of the affected groups.
Overall it might have faded or grown some over the years, it just something that if fairly ingrained in our culture, it's not anything that will fully go away any time soon.
It is also highly dependent on corporate culture at specific companies. A fair amount of larger companies make a point of getting their "tokens" to address any implication of sexism/racism.
I have seen a fair amount of diversity at the smaller operators that I have worked at. Is there still sexism/racism? You bet, when not in an audience that demands "PC" behavior, there is still a lot of nasty rhetoric that follows the typical stereotypic attitudes. Day to day, probably not as much as in the past.
I find it hilarious that most people that deny the existence of racism/sexism are for the most part 100 % not in any of the affected groups.
Overall it might have faded or grown some over the years, it just something that if fairly ingrained in our culture, it's not anything that will fully go away any time soon.
No one is denying racism still exists. It exists in different forms. It happens in some very unpopular situations on a very large basis. Such as...black on white, black on Asian, and black on gay. All very largely unreported. Not a popular stat to address, but it's the truth.
And white males are the only ones that are expected to change their ways. We're the easiest to pick on. Sorry if I'm a little rough. I come from a large law enforcement family.
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,662
Great post rickair.
You're forgetting, however, that in today's society it's a crime that every occupation isn't populated in exact proportion with societal demographics. Not enough female scientists, not enough NFL coaches of color (never mind the player demographic -- that's illusory.) Not enough women in boardrooms. Not enough female law partners. This institutional sexism and racism needs to be rectified by any means necessary -- even if it means forcing some people to like the idea of flying airplanes and science. In the name of diversity.
No excuses will be tolerated.
You're forgetting, however, that in today's society it's a crime that every occupation isn't populated in exact proportion with societal demographics. Not enough female scientists, not enough NFL coaches of color (never mind the player demographic -- that's illusory.) Not enough women in boardrooms. Not enough female law partners. This institutional sexism and racism needs to be rectified by any means necessary -- even if it means forcing some people to like the idea of flying airplanes and science. In the name of diversity.
No excuses will be tolerated.
Sure, there WAS a time when the rationale of "we simply didn't think it was an option for us" was viable. That went away long ago......
"Equality means an equal chance, NOT an equal outcome".
It was comical a few years back at WAI, there were some younger female pilots openly commenting about all the males there, and how messed up it was that males are allowed to attend. As in, saying it loud enough that plenty of people around can hear it.
Last edited by John Carr; 12-22-2016 at 10:25 AM.
#15
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 666
Of course, she was also the only first officer that I ever flew with who universally had a reputation with every captain that I knew for being the most incompetent and dangerous pilot that they had ever flown with. So, naturally her career depends on being pushed to the front of the line. That and her plastic surgery should allow her career to go far.
#16
I had a female roommate a few years back who, when I commented that I had attended WAI, was aghast at the prospect that women weren't immediately given the front of the line for all of the meet and greet's. She couldn't get over how "unfair" it was that women had to wait in line to talk to recruiters, like all the men did.
Of course, she was also the only first officer that I ever flew with who universally had a reputation with every captain that I knew for being the most incompetent and dangerous pilot that they had ever flown with. So, naturally her career depends on being pushed to the front of the line. That and her plastic surgery should allow her career to go far.
Of course, she was also the only first officer that I ever flew with who universally had a reputation with every captain that I knew for being the most incompetent and dangerous pilot that they had ever flown with. So, naturally her career depends on being pushed to the front of the line. That and her plastic surgery should allow her career to go far.
Haha, I once told a girl who commented "remember when this used to be about women?" that women didnt need these job fairs to get hired. She had nada
#17
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,662
I had a female roommate a few years back who, when I commented that I had attended WAI, was aghast at the prospect that women weren't immediately given the front of the line for all of the meet and greet's. She couldn't get over how "unfair" it was that women had to wait in line to talk to recruiters, like all the men did.
That's awesome.
#18
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Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Unknown
Posts: 108
Two separate things, not to be confused...
The traditional airline career path began in the military. Both military and airlines have long career pipelines and you cannot jump in or out in the middle. Today's senior widebody Captains began their journey in Vietnam.
Society has changed, and the military has followed suite, but the senior pilots of today reflect a snapshot of 1970's demographics. What you see there is 40 years time-late, and does not reflect opportunities today. Both the airlines and the military are falling all over themselves to hire non-whites and women, when they can find them.
If you pay attention to the younger pilots, you'll see much more diversity but still plenty of white males. Reason for that is that aviation is a long journey and usually starts with childhood interests. White males are more likely to be rural or suburban gear-heads, and to pursue technical education relevant to aviation. Woman tend to prefer white-collar education and work to technical fields, so the pool of interested minority/female applicants is limited just based on their own interests. I don't consider that to be a fault of the aviation industry, if there's a problem maybe society needs to provide better early education opportunities to some demographics.
The majority of female pilots tend to drop out of aviation, or take career off-ramps to raise kids. Their choice, but entirely understandable...it's a rough lifestyle with kids.
As far as cockpit culture, with the few rare exceptions that exist in any walk of life, you'll find it very welcoming and open to anyone (we even have trans pilots now, although I can't say they are warmly accepted just yet).
If you're interested and willing to do what it takes to get there, you'll have a good experience. Although you'll probably have to discuss politics you don't agree with at some point, but all of us have had that experience.
The traditional airline career path began in the military. Both military and airlines have long career pipelines and you cannot jump in or out in the middle. Today's senior widebody Captains began their journey in Vietnam.
Society has changed, and the military has followed suite, but the senior pilots of today reflect a snapshot of 1970's demographics. What you see there is 40 years time-late, and does not reflect opportunities today. Both the airlines and the military are falling all over themselves to hire non-whites and women, when they can find them.
If you pay attention to the younger pilots, you'll see much more diversity but still plenty of white males. Reason for that is that aviation is a long journey and usually starts with childhood interests. White males are more likely to be rural or suburban gear-heads, and to pursue technical education relevant to aviation. Woman tend to prefer white-collar education and work to technical fields, so the pool of interested minority/female applicants is limited just based on their own interests. I don't consider that to be a fault of the aviation industry, if there's a problem maybe society needs to provide better early education opportunities to some demographics.
The majority of female pilots tend to drop out of aviation, or take career off-ramps to raise kids. Their choice, but entirely understandable...it's a rough lifestyle with kids.
As far as cockpit culture, with the few rare exceptions that exist in any walk of life, you'll find it very welcoming and open to anyone (we even have trans pilots now, although I can't say they are warmly accepted just yet).
If you're interested and willing to do what it takes to get there, you'll have a good experience. Although you'll probably have to discuss politics you don't agree with at some point, but all of us have had that experience.
There are NOT a lot of African Americans that have Parents That can afford to send their kids to Embry Riddle, Dowling College, or any other Flying School.
It's too much money to learn and too much money lost as a CFI/CFII.
And most Blacks don't have the Academic Credentials to have achieved this career Path via the Military either (Army, Navy, Air Force, etc.)
My Parents didn't pay for my Tickets. My Wife paid for about 50%
Of It and Large Federal Income Tax Refunds paid for the rest. (Carnival Airlines Pilot Development Program)
#19
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Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Unknown
Posts: 108
Just came across this article from 2014 which discusses the lack of diversity in airline cockpits. I was interested in seeing input from actual pilots to see if the things said in this article hold any weight. Have you seen any discrimination in hiring practices at your airline or is this a non-issue?
Airlines' flight decks lack diversity | TheHill
Airlines' flight decks lack diversity | TheHill
I'm African American and I've been flying professionally since 1995
With Carnival Airlines as A Flight Engineer.....I'm now flying with one of the Top 3 Worldwide Cargo Carriers.
Never had a problem getting the jobs or the people I've flown with.
It's a very close brotherhood and most everyone welcomes you with open arms.......unless you demonstrate tendencies that may be UNSAFE....Then the outlook is different and would be different NO MATTER Waht Your Ethnic Persuasion.
#20
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 375
I was stuck in the middle no mans land where my parents made too much money for me to qualify for student aid, but not enough to actually pay for everything themselves.
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