"I could have stayed at Horizon Air and been stuck living what to me was a nightmare"

See Sky, there is your problem, planting your personal view of the biz onto all our laps. You bash the industry unceasingly and yet don't understand that being a Capt at one of the best regionals in the country isn't considered by all as unworthy. Maybe unworthy to you. If you get into this biz and won't be happy making maxed out pay at a top regional, then maybe you SHOULD think twice. Don't come on here years later saying the career sucks and woe is me.

"At the time I went to National Airlines it was the envy of the industry."

Now that's laughable. National was a bottom feeder start up out of LAS trying to compete directly with what was a major hub for America West and Southwest. Their pay was close to Horizon numbers for flying a 757. Saying National was the envy of the industry? By what standard? They were six months from start up to chapter 11. Skybus did better. Were they the envy of the industry, too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_(N7)

 

ditto. I left for Alaska & got furloughed. Looking back, I would still do it again versus sitting right seat in the Q400 for 10 years.

 

Glad to hear there is positive progress. Looks like he'll be home for his 1st Christmas!

 

You never flew for the regionals so I can understand why you do not realize how flying for a regional can be so different. The life and expectations of a regional pilot are vastly different from that of a legacy pilot.

When I started out the term "regional" in regards to the airlines did not exist. There were "commuters" but no one wanted to work there. Like everyone else my goal was to fly for a "major" airline. Never for a commuter if I could help it. Life for a major airline pilot is vastly different from that of a regional pilot. Pay is more than double what a regional pilot earns. They work less and have much better benefits. Besides that legacy pilots have easier lives and a better work experience.

After a restful (not) night at a trashy truck stop grade hotel in a podunk town a regional pilot commonly starts the day at 3:30AM for a 4:30 show time and a 5:00AM departure. After 14 hours of scheduled duty time, three airplane swaps, two airport fast food meals the regional pilot is finally able to stand in the rain awaiting the van ride to the next crummy hotel where the bed is hard and truckers yell obscenities at prostitutes in the parking lot all night. Regional turboprop pilots are stuck in the weather all day between two pounding propellers. Major airline pilots do not fly 9 leg days, climb to FL 350, and rarely had to show before 7:00AM

As a major (now known as legacy) airline pilot you were building towards a better life. They stay in nicer hotels, have enough per diem to buy better meals and are even fed in flight. They fly much fewer legs and often only have to pre-flight a plane once a day. Legacy plots go home to nice neighborhoods and park in the driveway of a home that they own. Their spouses can afford to stay at home if they wish. Legacy pilots can fly more credit hours in a day since the leg lengths are longer and have better opportunity for more time off.

Regional pilots wear the same uniforms as legacy guys and have a similar job but their lives are very much not the same. A regional pilot lives in trailer parks and wish they were mailmen. I always wanted something better and was not willing to cut my future short merely because I was able to fly a plane everyday.

In reply to your second statement:

National and Jetblue started at the same time. We had a lot of pilots who were senior and left JetBlue to come to National Airlines. Hindsight is 20/20 but at the time no one knows how things are going to play out. I left a dead end $19,500 a year FO job for twice the money and a promise of a one year upgrade in a 757. It was a risk. Staying at Horizon is a much bigger one in my estimation.

Skyhigh

 

Story Problem:

Horizon air pilot: 10 years stuck as a First Officer at an average of 30K then ten years more as a captain at an average of 70K. Over 20 years the pilot can make an average of 50K per year.

Guy at the county dump: Guy at the dump gets hired at 20 and starts out at 48K. After 20 years has been given progressive pay raises until reaching 58K. Has full benefits, is home every night, gets every weekend, holiday and three weeks paid off each year. In addition after 20 years they are now eligible for retirement.

The pilot spent a fortune on education and training. After wasting four years or more in college they also had to spend five years flight instructing and part 135 prior to making it to their starting point at Horizon Air. The pilot is getting old before they even get a chance to buy a house or to consider getting married. In addition the regional pilot has to be able to earn back the investment it took to get there. It could take decades before they can really consider themselves as making more than the guy at the dump.

Question:

Who has the better job from an income and lifestyle perspective?

Skyhigh

 

Man I should've just worked at the dump.... I dont think their uniforms get chicks though. Now we just have to figure out how to afford to buy them a drink with our low wages

 

Exaggerating much? Also, I have never in my life met a pilot who lives in a trailer park. I actually have a nice home with electricity and indoor plumbing! I must be one of the lucky ones! ah-hyuck! gawrsh!

 

I would rather work at a dump and smell the trash then have to read the trash you write. Go away and stop writing on these forums. Obviously no one cares about your point of view and just because you fly for fun doesn't mean you are "in aviation." Maybe you should be a motivational speaker or a suicide hotline operator since you think your point of view is so wanted and accepted.

 

Look, there's good and bad things about Horizon Air. Are there problems there? Yes, they have 80 something guys on furlough and yet guys are still picking up premium pay trips. They have a young union with very little solidarity as demonstrated to their furloughees. The upgrade is a long one. Easily ten years plus. They haven't grown in a long, long, time and probably won't for a long, long, time. However those things said, they operate good equipment in a nice area of the country. And for a lot of the pilots there, that is enough to make them lifers. The pay is fairly decent for a regional airline, although I predict pay cuts on the next contract which has been in talks for a while now.

I don't know fellas, a topped out rj captain at QX can make 120,000 K and live in a great part of the country. Man, if you can't be happy on 120k you'll never be happy on 300k. I guess these days you can't ask for much more than that, huh?

I left Horizon and ended up furloughed from Alaska, and I would do it again, but not because Horizon was such a horrible place to be, I just had a different career in mind...

A wise old pilot once told me, "son, when you think about the regional airline you want to work for, consider where you could be happy if you ended up stuck there for your career." Horizon is one of those places that if you did end up stuck there, it wouldn't be the end of the world...

 

Hey man it is not the end of the world. It is just another view point. I know it is scary to see things from the other side but why don't you try attacking my position and not me? Besides this is a forum and not a propaganda web site.

Skyhigh