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Precontact 06-12-2019 10:51 PM


Originally Posted by Southerner (Post 2834185)
Incorrect. It's about ETOPS and the fact that it requires currency and skill to operate that kind of flying. This isn't an opinion.

At UPS we have 757/767 domestic and 757/767 international domiciles both in SDF. They are separate. Also combined 757/767 PacRim/domestic domicile in ONT and 757/767 S America/domestic domicile in MIA. Our other international fleets (MD-11, 747) are not split international and domestic. The A300 is domestic only. So there is some validity to this statement. Probably depends on your local CMO and their preferences.

Bluedriver 06-13-2019 05:34 AM


Originally Posted by Precontact (Post 2835926)
At UPS we have 757/767 domestic and 757/767 international domiciles both in SDF. They are separate. Also combined 757/767 PacRim/domestic domicile in ONT and 757/767 S America/domestic domicile in MIA. Our other international fleets (MD-11, 747) are not split international and domestic. The A300 is domestic only. So there is some validity to this statement. Probably depends on your local CMO and their preferences.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here, except for possibly the last sentence.

Are you saying at UPS that some pilots require "currency and skill" to fly ETOPS, but some don't?

Climbto450 06-13-2019 06:40 AM


Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 2835978)
You seem to be contradicting yourself here, except for possibly the last sentence.

Are you saying at UPS that some pilots require "currency and skill" to fly ETOPS, but some don't?

I read it as within each of the mentioned domiciles there are essential different bases. ETOPS qualified & current and non ETOPS qualified positions separates the bases. Imagine if FLL had 2 bases within the domicile 1 base has all the below the red line qualified pilots (these pilots almost exclusively would fly below the red line stuff) and the other base has no one qualified for below the red line flying and fly all the other flying. Then you might have BOS and JFK that are ETOPS qualified but do mixed ETOPS and non ETOPS flying but still have to maintain currency. Different needs for different bases makes sense. My understanding is it’s pretty common among international ETOPS qualified carriers. I read no contradictions there just clear as mud.

Bluedriver 06-13-2019 06:43 AM


Originally Posted by Climbto450 (Post 2836000)
I read it as within each of the mentioned domiciles there are essential different bases. ETOPS qualified & current and non ETOPS qualified positions separates the bases. Imagine if FLL had 2 bases within the domicile 1 base has all the below the red line qualified pilots and the other base has no one qualified for below the red line flying and fly all the other flying. I read no contradictions there just clear as mud��

I disagree. He said ONT and MIA are mixed flying with domestic and long haul.

Yes, he said SDF is separate, but the other bases are mixed.

capt707 06-13-2019 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by nuball5 (Post 2835719)
Tomorrow before noon.

Well.... we’re waiting!

embraerjetpilot 06-13-2019 07:36 AM


Originally Posted by capt707 (Post 2836031)
Well.... we’re waiting!

I thought it was seven days...

Bluedriver 06-13-2019 07:42 AM


Originally Posted by Climbto450 (Post 2836000)
I read it as within each of the mentioned domiciles there are essential different bases. ETOPS qualified & current and non ETOPS qualified positions separates the bases. Imagine if FLL had 2 bases within the domicile 1 base has all the below the red line qualified pilots (these pilots almost exclusively would fly below the red line stuff) and the other base has no one qualified for below the red line flying and fly all the other flying. Then you might have BOS and JFK that are ETOPS qualified but do mixed ETOPS and non ETOPS flying but still have to maintain currency. Different needs for different bases makes sense. My understanding is it’s pretty common among international ETOPS qualified carriers. I read no contradictions there just clear as mud.

I see you edited your post after I responded to try and invalidate my response.

A mixed base, as they do at United, only requires annual recurrent training to meet the FARs/ETOPS requirements (including currency).

So no, having ETOPS pilots separate from domestic because of "currency and skill" is NOT "required". It may be the way a company wants to run it's operation, and that company may even make that part of it's ETOPS application/certification, but it is NOT required.

So there would be no "validity" to the statement that ETOPS requires a separate bid class due to "currency and skill".

In the responders own post, he said UPS does run some domiciles as mixed domestic/long haul. So only some ups pilots require "currency and skill" to fly ETOPS, but others don't.

Bluedriver 06-13-2019 07:46 AM


Originally Posted by embraerjetpilot (Post 2836032)
I thought it was seven days...

I think that is the requirement. One of the posters said about 48 hours, because that's when they posted the last one. But this bid is much larger, so historical norms may or may not be honored.

nuball5 06-13-2019 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 2836040)
I think that is the requirement. One of the posters said about 48 hours, because that's when they posted the last one. But this bid is much larger, so historical norms may or may not be honored.

The past three have been 48 hours if my memory serves me right....but yeah, who knows with this one. My prediction isn’t aging well 😂

Climbto450 06-13-2019 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 2836034)
I see you edited your post after I responded to try and invalidate my response.

A mixed base, as they do at United, only requires annual recurrent training to meet the FARs/ETOPS requirements (including currency).

So no, having ETOPS pilots separate from domestic because of "currency and skill" is NOT "required". It may be the way a company wants to run it's operation, and that company may even make that part of it's ETOPS application/certification, but it is NOT required.

So there would be no "validity" to the statement that ETOPS requires a separate bid class due to "currency and skill".

In the responders own post, he said UPS does run some domiciles as mixed domestic/long haul. So only some ups pilots require "currency and skill" to fly ETOPS, but others don't.

Not even close, I was editing while you responded and it was only trying to bring clarity. Not trying to invalidate anything. Just trying to clear up his response. You can understand it however your perception allows. Once again why I don’t post on here very often.
Now back to the actual constructive side of this discussion. ETOPS doesn’t require a separate bid class, it’s how the individual operator wants to manage it. However, like below the red line flying for us it does require currency and training. No one was talking about requiring anything simply posting how other operators choose to manage the same dilemma we will shortly be having. If there is one thing we all understand about JB is that they will do things there own way probably not the way any other carrier does it..


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