Working at JB
07-18-2023 | 08:40 AM
#511
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 81
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From: Switch it up
Maybe I want to credit 120 hours this month, then go backpacking in Europe next month. Not everybody lives to serve the corporate overlords.
07-18-2023 | 08:41 AM
#512
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
No. It's part how those rules benefit everyone. It forces the company to adequately staff the airline. Some people want to max their flying. Some people want to chill. Some do both. Just because you can't hold how it works in your head, doesn't change that it actually works very well in reality. DTZ and grid rules are golden and benefit everyone regardless of your schedule preferences. You could enjoy them too with this next contract if you took two seconds to understand how they work and how they effect the system.
07-18-2023 | 09:04 AM
#513
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Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Switch it up
Correct. If everyone dumped their schedule the reserves would get used up then junior assignments would happen (at 200% pay). But, it's really a moot point as that's just not how it happens in reality b/c people have different schedule goals. The point is DTZ helps everyone achieve those different scheduling goals. I'm not confused about this. Please take some time to grok how it works and how it benefits everyone.
07-18-2023 | 09:13 AM
#514
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
No. It's part how those rules benefit everyone. It forces the company to adequately staff the airline. Some people want to max their flying. Some people want to chill. Some do both. Just because you can't hold how it works in your head, doesn't change that it actually works very well in reality. DTZ and grid rules are golden and benefit everyone regardless of your schedule preferences. You could enjoy them too with this next contract if you took two seconds to understand how they work and how they effect the system.
07-18-2023 | 09:15 AM
#515
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 472
Likes: 1
Correct. If everyone dumped their schedule the reserves would get used up then junior assignments would happen (at 200% pay). But, it's really a moot point as that's just not how it happens in reality b/c people have different schedule goals. The point is DTZ helps everyone achieve those different scheduling goals. I'm not confused about this. Please take some time to grok how it works and how it benefits everyone.
07-18-2023 | 09:50 AM
#516
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Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Switch it up
How could everyone dump their schedule? At some point (10% of the pilot group? Nobody will answer that question), if X% of spirit pilots dropped their whole schedule, the reserve grid would go red, and then nobody else could drop anything. So not, not everyone could dump their schedule.
But, everyone dropping to zero at the same time is a hypothetical moot point that does not happen in reality because, you know, people need to earn a living. But the fact that DTZ is an option, hugely benefits everyone.
Being ex-USAF, I have a bunch of friends at the UA's and DL's and they can't do what we can with our schedules.
07-18-2023 | 10:44 AM
#517
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Correct. If everyone dumped their schedule the reserves would get used up then junior assignments would happen (at 200% pay). But, it's really a moot point as that's just not how it happens in reality b/c people have different schedule goals. The point is DTZ helps everyone achieve those different scheduling goals. I'm not confused about this. Please take some time to grok how it works and how it benefits everyone.
For me, RED/GREEN is mandatory, and DT40-50 is also high on my list. Full ZERO is fine, if we can get it, but many other priorities fall higher on the list than full pure ZERO. Your list can look different, that's ok.
07-18-2023 | 12:00 PM
#518
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Switch it up
Now that we're kind of on the same page, I was responding to possibledeviation who said (paraphrasing) the he had dropped everything and sat for premium, and said "if he can do it, everyone can do it". So you see, we have a disconnect. He dropped his whole line, and sat the month waiting for X/Y. But everyone CANNOT do that, after approximately 10-20% of the lienholders tried to do that, maybe less, the grids would all go red. So he's wrong, everyone CANNOT do that, and that was the discussion you walked into telling me I was wrong.
Possibledeviation is correct in that everyone DOES have the option to drop trips and sit on the X/Y list. That's the beauty of it. Do it when you want if you are flexible with time and money. DTZ and the red/green rules make it work as a symbiotic package.
We already have full DTZ. It's arbitrated and won, rock solid, tested in the courts contract language. You don't give hard fought language like that up. Especially given the effort and sacrifices our predecessors put into creating and litigating for it. They set an industry leading standard for work rules.
07-18-2023 | 12:22 PM
#519
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Yes. Again, everyone dropping to zero at the same time is a hypothetical situation that doesn't happen in reality. So, it's kind of pointless to talk about. But, I briefly explained what would happen in that scenario (ie: everyone would get lots of 200% pay).
Possibledeviation is correct in that everyone DOES have the option to drop trips and sit on the X/Y list. That's the beauty of it. Do it when you want if you are flexible with time and money. DTZ and the red/green rules make it work as a symbiotic package.
We already have full DTZ. It's arbitrated and won, rock solid, tested in the courts contract language. You don't give hard fought language like that up. Especially given the effort and sacrifices our predecessors put into creating and litigating for it. They set an industry leading standard for work rules.
Possibledeviation is correct in that everyone DOES have the option to drop trips and sit on the X/Y list. That's the beauty of it. Do it when you want if you are flexible with time and money. DTZ and the red/green rules make it work as a symbiotic package.
We already have full DTZ. It's arbitrated and won, rock solid, tested in the courts contract language. You don't give hard fought language like that up. Especially given the effort and sacrifices our predecessors put into creating and litigating for it. They set an industry leading standard for work rules.
I believe you don't know your own airlines history. Red/green went to court and was upheld and therefore is rock solid. I do not believe DTZ was put to that same test/experience. I've seen enough incorrect info from you, so I will wait for other NKs to weigh in on that important distinction.
07-18-2023 | 02:00 PM
#520
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Switch it up
No, there wouldn't be lots of 200%, because the grids would go red after 10-20% (or less) of people tried to drop, but the basic minimum required reserves would still be there. That's why the company has a red line in the first place, to protect them from not having enough reserves.
I believe you don't know your own airlines history. Red/green went to court and was upheld and therefore is rock solid. I do not believe DTZ was put to that same test/experience. I've seen enough incorrect info from you, so I will wait for other NKs to weigh in on that important distinction.
I believe you don't know your own airlines history. Red/green went to court and was upheld and therefore is rock solid. I do not believe DTZ was put to that same test/experience. I've seen enough incorrect info from you, so I will wait for other NKs to weigh in on that important distinction.
I don't understand why you keep arguing against pilots – talking about giving up hard won work rules for nothing in the best negotiating environment we've seen in decades. Or in the other thread, advocating for weaker profit sharing language.
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