JetBlue pilots sold scope
04-05-2022, 09:42 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Admiral
Posts: 726
Originally Posted by Whica Flore
The legacies are not growing. They are mature businesses that hold virtual monopolies at their fortress hubs. Career progression is based solely on turnover of retirees. Not on growth of the business
All jetblue career progression is based purely on growth. But growth rates slow overtime. Its easier to double in size when you are a small business with room to grow. Going from 25 to 50 aircraft is very achievable. That same growth in real terms now (25 airplanes) is 10% of current fleet but once upon a time it was doubling in size.
Our list has grown by 33% in 5 years. The projections are for 500 per year for the foreseeable future (15% growth PA).
I get the reason why folks are choosing the legacies.
But what exact kind of growth at jetblue do you deem to be sufficient, and more importantly realistic?
We are where we are as a business. Only thing that changed our size quickly is M&A
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All jetblue career progression is based purely on growth. But growth rates slow overtime. Its easier to double in size when you are a small business with room to grow. Going from 25 to 50 aircraft is very achievable. That same growth in real terms now (25 airplanes) is 10% of current fleet but once upon a time it was doubling in size.
Our list has grown by 33% in 5 years. The projections are for 500 per year for the foreseeable future (15% growth PA).
I get the reason why folks are choosing the legacies.
But what exact kind of growth at jetblue do you deem to be sufficient, and more importantly realistic?
We are where we are as a business. Only thing that changed our size quickly is M&A
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Our only hope of attracting more pilots is through growth. Just as you pointed out, the legacies don't share the same problem due to attrition.
So how do we compete? Our closest competitors just merged, all the airlines above us don't have an issue attracting pilots. Where as a company do we go from here?
With the DOJ already unhappy with the NEA, I doubt an AA merger could ever come about. With UA's dominance in EWR, I doubt we'd be allowed a merger there as well. Perhaps Alaska would be a contender, but the fleet disparity might be a put off (not that that would be a deal breaker in itself. Who knows what growth can be realistic, before covid, I believe both Spirit and Frontier had enough airplanes on order to double in size. The pilot market probably put a damper on those plans causing the merger. The thing is, if we don't have a good growth plan, what is going to attract any pilot here with the prospect of getting caught in a stagnated seniority list? Having seen how management likes to pat themselves on the back during an operational meltdown (that they largely created), I really don't think they have a plan at this point. Least a successful plan. I'm in that 4 year or less category here, I have a little more grey hair than some of my counterparts, and even though I'm not really a "grass is greener on the other side" kind of a person I have to admit I'm contemplating updating the logbook. Even if jumping ship may not increase my career net enough to warrant a jump based on the numbers, the idea of being on a ship with a rudder may make up for that...
04-05-2022, 10:47 AM
#72
Covfefe
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by Roy Biggins
I’ll echo this. If nothing else, our management is greedy and will want to do most of the flying because it’s the most money for them. I voted No for the same reasons. Some of these people need to go get some fresh air and breathe.
“the Mutual Growth Incentive Agreement commits Defendants to pool and apportion revenues earned on flights to and from the four airports such that each partner earns the same revenues regardless of whether a passenger flies on an American or a JetBlue plane.”
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...34621/download
A lot of yes voters I’ve talked to about this didn’t realize or seem to appreciate the significance of that. In fact one of the LEC reps I talked to was misinformed and didn’t realize that was the case either. The whole “codeshares pay pennies on the dollar so management will want pax on their own metal” that people keep saying doesn’t apply here. There’s a reason we negotiated 1F7 in the first place. A simple codeshare not requiring 1F7 relief wouldn’t have been as huge a deal for me, would still feed the NEA, etc. Why couldn’t we just push for that. Why even negotiate stuff if we are willing to just give it away.
04-05-2022, 11:20 AM
#73
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by Whica Flore
The legacies are not growing. They are mature businesses that hold virtual monopolies at their fortress hubs. Career progression is based solely on turnover of retirees. Not on growth of the business
All jetblue career progression is based purely on growth. But growth rates slow overtime. Its easier to double in size when you are a small business with room to grow. Going from 25 to 50 aircraft is very achievable. That same growth in real terms now (25 airplanes) is 10% of current fleet but once upon a time it was doubling in size.
Our list has grown by 33% in 5 years. The projections are for 500 per year for the foreseeable future (15% growth PA).
I get the reason why folks are choosing the legacies.
But what exact kind of growth at jetblue do you deem to be sufficient, and more importantly realistic?
We are where we are as a business. Only thing that changed our size quickly is M&A
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
All jetblue career progression is based purely on growth. But growth rates slow overtime. Its easier to double in size when you are a small business with room to grow. Going from 25 to 50 aircraft is very achievable. That same growth in real terms now (25 airplanes) is 10% of current fleet but once upon a time it was doubling in size.
Our list has grown by 33% in 5 years. The projections are for 500 per year for the foreseeable future (15% growth PA).
I get the reason why folks are choosing the legacies.
But what exact kind of growth at jetblue do you deem to be sufficient, and more importantly realistic?
We are where we are as a business. Only thing that changed our size quickly is M&A
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
04-05-2022, 11:53 AM
#74
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by Flyhayes
?
I'm in that 4 year or less category here, I have a little more grey hair than some of my counterparts, and even though I'm not really a "grass is greener on the other side" kind of a person I have to admit I'm contemplating updating the logbook. Even if jumping ship may not increase my career net enough to warrant a jump based on the numbers, the idea of being on a ship with a rudder may make up for that...
I'm in that 4 year or less category here, I have a little more grey hair than some of my counterparts, and even though I'm not really a "grass is greener on the other side" kind of a person I have to admit I'm contemplating updating the logbook. Even if jumping ship may not increase my career net enough to warrant a jump based on the numbers, the idea of being on a ship with a rudder may make up for that...
I knew the seniority progression here vs legacies when i got hired. That die was cast years ago and everyone knew it. Everyone has their own work/life balance priorities.
I have listened into every quarterly call and read the companies financials when published. Their growth plan has been set and remains largely unchanged for years besides some order deferrals.
I don’t like our ELT and am not a juicer but the honest truth is we are chugging along our planned growth path. (albeit in constant irop) . In fact during COVID we embarked on an unexpected and aggressive expansion / land grab in EWR and LAX.
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04-05-2022, 12:13 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Roy Biggins
I’ll echo this. If nothing else, our management is greedy and will want to do most of the flying because it’s the most money for them. I voted No for the same reasons. Some of these people need to go get some fresh air and breathe.
04-05-2022, 12:27 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Admiral
Posts: 726
Originally Posted by Whica Flore
You should do whatever is best for you and your family and best of luck whatever you decide.
I knew the seniority progression here vs legacies when i got hired. That die was cast years ago and everyone knew it. Everyone has their own work/life balance priorities.
I have listened into every quarterly call and read the companies financials when published. Their growth plan has been set and remains largely unchanged for years besides some order deferrals.
I don’t like our ELT and am not a juicer but the honest truth is we are chugging along our planned growth path. (albeit in constant irop) . In fact during COVID we embarked on an unexpected and aggressive expansion / land grab in EWR and LAX.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I knew the seniority progression here vs legacies when i got hired. That die was cast years ago and everyone knew it. Everyone has their own work/life balance priorities.
I have listened into every quarterly call and read the companies financials when published. Their growth plan has been set and remains largely unchanged for years besides some order deferrals.
I don’t like our ELT and am not a juicer but the honest truth is we are chugging along our planned growth path. (albeit in constant irop) . In fact during COVID we embarked on an unexpected and aggressive expansion / land grab in EWR and LAX.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
04-05-2022, 03:23 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 320
You guys realize why this purchase attempt was announced the day AFTER we sold scope right?
The company was sitting on a war chest. They were holding back on making an offer on NK. They needed to know if they were going to have the funds to pull it off or if they were going to have to pay us instead.
Bone headed, weak, cheap B6 pilots deserve everything coming to them. I hope you 12 year MCO FOs enjoy swinging gear for a 3 year Spirit captain.
The company was sitting on a war chest. They were holding back on making an offer on NK. They needed to know if they were going to have the funds to pull it off or if they were going to have to pay us instead.
Bone headed, weak, cheap B6 pilots deserve everything coming to them. I hope you 12 year MCO FOs enjoy swinging gear for a 3 year Spirit captain.
04-05-2022, 03:32 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,093
Originally Posted by MainlineFlyer
You guys realize why this purchase attempt was announced the day AFTER we sold scope right?
The company was sitting on a war chest. They were holding back on making an offer on NK. They needed to know if they were going to have the funds to pull it off or if they were going to have to pay us instead.
Bone headed, weak, cheap B6 pilots deserve everything coming to them. I hope you 12 year MCO FOs enjoy swinging gear for a 3 year Spirit captain.
The company was sitting on a war chest. They were holding back on making an offer on NK. They needed to know if they were going to have the funds to pull it off or if they were going to have to pay us instead.
Bone headed, weak, cheap B6 pilots deserve everything coming to them. I hope you 12 year MCO FOs enjoy swinging gear for a 3 year Spirit captain.
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