capt707

Good Lord some of you guys are dramatic! Regional Pilots?

I guess the good news…. it sounds like a bunch of you are are going to leave for DL, UA, etc. Gonna be moving up quick!

knewyork

I agree, the dramatics here are ridiculous. I’m not sure if people have noticed that the regional model is going away. Also, I’m wondering how we’re going to fly the XLRs on order on jfk-bos turns since we’re apparently a regional now.

Like all corporations, the name of the game is money. Not even the easiest money, but the most. Anyone stop to consider the best way to make the most money is to fly your own flights? I’m being serious. I actually voted no because I wasn’t impressed enough with 3% and a few thousand dollars. As a principle I wanted to vote this down to show it wasn’t attractive enough to retain pilots.

Just like politics today, the truth of it all lies somewhere in the middle. The loudest people are never 100% right.

nuball5

I agree with everything you said. I voted no for the same reasons you did, plus all the almost worthless pilot number growth metrics in the LOA. In the end it just wasn’t worth the “yes” vote.

People are concerned about losing potential Europe flying and having to fly more to La Guardia in its place. I get that for some that type of flying is appealing. Based on how the last couple system bids have went, it seems like people can’t get off SQ status soon enough. A London 3 day worth 15.5 hrs with a redeye for A320 rates, I can see why. I don’t see our expansion (if there is one now) into CDG, AMS or MAD being anymore desirable unless there’s a change to the CBA that’s addresses it. It seems like they have to hire more to support a three person crew flying Transatlantic, so that’s the big plus of having that type of flying.

Descendto450

I'm right there with you and. I couldn't have said it better. Thank you..

BunkerF16

Honestly, I checked out mentally after CBA 1 TA and subsequent yes vote. That was the beginning of the end for me. I go to work. I do my job. I go home. I will not allow decisions made by the company or the union affect my mental well being. I don't get upset. I don't throw tantrums. I just don't care anymore. I also voted no knowing it was going to pass. It is what it is around here. But if I get upset, they win again. I refuse to allow that to happen. Spin 1 and 2 on pushback. Safety first and always.

Whica Flore

But less of a real pay cut no?

Lets be honest here - we have 26 LR/XLR on order capable of limited Trans atlantic service. We are going to hit up 4-8 big western Europe Markets from JFK/BOS as was always the plan. Anyone who expected explosive trans atl growth here (look at our current op) is living in a parallel universe. That kind of mature growth is a slow and steady backed by a solid domestic market presence. Look at Norwegian, Prima Air or WOW for how to not do Trans Atl growth.


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Flyhayes

No you won't, If we don't back fill then you're pretty much stagnant. Most 4 year guys here are contenders for a meaningful legacy career. Well just become a training ground for them.
The problem we and other LCC's have is that mgmt hasn't really been paying attention to the shortage. ALL of the legacies have been planning for this for nearly a decade as they've had a front row seat through their regional subsidiaries.
Spirit/Frontier realized this and decided a merger was their best action, now they are head to head competitors with us and overlap many of out most important markets. Add in the fact that most industry experts feel that we reached the sweet spot regarding Major airline consolidation, leading B6 to have very little wiggle room left to play with. How are wo going to attract new talent when pay is better elsewhere, and we have well known track record for not defending the contract?
A business mentor of mine taught me, "if a company isn't growing, it's dying". I'm not sure where we are going to sustain ourselves on the slow "organic" growth that previously served us well, as all the other airlines lap us.

Roy Biggins

I’ll echo this. If nothing else, our management is greedy and will want to do most of the flying because it’s the most money for them. I voted No for the same reasons. Some of these people need to go get some fresh air and breathe.

Whica Flore

The legacies are not growing. They are mature businesses that hold virtual monopolies at their fortress hubs. Career progression is based solely on turnover of retirees. Not on growth of the business

All jetblue career progression is based purely on growth. But growth rates slow overtime. Its easier to double in size when you are a small business with room to grow. Going from 25 to 50 aircraft is very achievable. That same growth in real terms now (25 airplanes) is 10% of current fleet but once upon a time it was doubling in size.

Our list has grown by 33% in 5 years. The projections are for 500 per year for the foreseeable future (15% growth PA).

I get the reason why folks are choosing the legacies.

But what exact kind of growth at jetblue do you deem to be sufficient, and more importantly realistic?

We are where we are as a business. Only thing that changed our size quickly is M&A




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Whica Flore

Double post