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Originally Posted by I was inverted
(Post 3552992)
B6 pilots have tons of leverage right now. They can’t fill classes. People are leaving in droves. Pattern bargaining means you go with the trend, not leapfrog behind..especially when nothing else in the QOL section is getting fixed. B6 pilots need to stop leapfrogging behind others and riding their coattails. Sometimes it takes walking away and picketing and pulling other levers to get a deal. B6ALPA consistently settles for less. Profit sharing is industry standard. It used to exist until the CBA. B6 has a 50% larger pilot group than Alaska, and now makes less than they do with their profit sharing/incentive plan. B6ALPA will always “get ‘em next time.” Well what if next time doesn’t have the same leverage? Legacies are going to hire a ton in the next 2-3 years. Every young person they hire makes the math worse for someone to leave jetblue. Once it’s no longer the front side of a hiring wave, it’s less attractive to make a move. Then jetblue can drag it out. JCBA/single operating certificate/etc…the union thinks that’s the real leverage. Leverage exists now. And it was used for getting less than Alaska? Yeah…sure they will get ‘em next time.
Originally Posted by KNOTAPILOT
(Post 3552997)
The issue is that there’s always a reason to push fighting for profit sharing down the line. When there’s a recession and we are negotiating a JCBA there’ll be a reason why it doesn’t matter to do so. You’re new still. Ask the next few captains you fly with how much they used to get paid in profit sharing. We weren’t Delta then either.
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Originally Posted by RJDriver900
(Post 3552998)
I appreciate the responses. I was just genuinely curious. Not many people, theres been a few, over on the potato farm have gone in depth as to why or really explained there reasoning. It was just a no PS no vote F the company. I'm keeping an open mind so I was just looking for more in depth since I am still new. I've been picking the minds of the captains I've flown with trying to gather knowledge about B6 going back years. Thats why I came to here because the farm right now just doesn't go in depth as to reasoning. I appreciate you both taking the time to respond. I am looking forward to reading and getting other's people opinions prior to the vote opening so I can learn more.
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Originally Posted by pilotpayne
(Post 3552995)
Now as for the rest. Let’s avoid your snark. It’s about perspective. You were not here to see a good sized PS check and the next thing you know the company changed the way we got ps and said well everyone would like a higher hourly rate anyway. So for some of us we would like what they took back. They union also said they wanted PS. I simply do not share your confidence that we will get it in the JCBA. One chance gone one left. We will see.
I’m sure PS is great. I want PS in the JCBA; you deserve to have it back. You can believe me or not, but it’s true. This time around, my personal line in the sand was 20% at my payband. They exceeded it; barely. For the JCBA PS will be a line in the sand for me. Right now, though, 20% moves buying a house, for example, up a couple years. I can’t justify a no vote with an absolutely unknown timeline for another opportunity at a solid raise before the JCBA. |
Originally Posted by IAFDOF
(Post 3553011)
So, real question. If you know for a fact that the company is like “absolutely no way!!” to PS; then what is the no vote? If you know they absolutely wont even consider it, then it seems to me that the “no” isnt just to send it back for more negotiations, it’s pure spite. Please don’t vote out of spite!
I’m sure PS is great. I want PS in the JCBA; you deserve to have it back. You can believe me or not, but it’s true. This time around, my personal line in the sand was 20% at my payband. They exceeded it; barely. For the JCBA PS will be a line in the sand for me. To the 15% that vote no, Godspeed |
Originally Posted by IAFDOF
(Post 3553011)
So, real question. If you know for a fact that the company is like “absolutely no way!!” to PS; then what is the no vote? If you know they absolutely wont even consider it, then it seems to me that the “no” isnt just to send it back for more negotiations, it’s pure spite. Please don’t vote out of spite!
I’m sure PS is great. I want PS in the JCBA; you deserve to have it back. You can believe me or not, but it’s true. This time around, my personal line in the sand was 20% at my payband. They exceeded it; barely. For the JCBA PS will be a line in the sand for me. |
Originally Posted by IAFDOF
(Post 3553011)
So, real question. If you know for a fact that the company is like “absolutely no way!!” to PS; then what is the no vote? If you know they absolutely wont even consider it, then it seems to me that the “no” isnt just to send it back for more negotiations, it’s pure spite. Please don’t vote out of spite!
I’m sure PS is great. I want PS in the JCBA; you deserve to have it back. You can believe me or not, but it’s true. This time around, my personal line in the sand was 20% at my payband. They exceeded it; barely. For the JCBA PS will be a line in the sand for me. Right now, though, 20% moves buying a house, for example, up a couple years. I can’t justify a no vote with an absolutely unknown timeline for another opportunity at a solid raise before the JCBA. Even if Alaska weren’t profitable, with their performance incentive plan plus their rates and their higher ADG, they are compensated better than B6 would be under this TA. B6 pilot group is 50% larger than AS pilot group. AS was the first in the chute. They didn’t have the delta agreement to use. They also made gains in many other areas. Why is it acceptable that B6 makes no gains in any areas, and still falls short overall in comp of even Alaska, let alone delta, especially when you include their profit sharing. Completely unacceptable agreement. |
Originally Posted by IAFDOF
(Post 3553011)
So, real question. If you know for a fact that the company is like “absolutely no way!!” to PS; then what is the no vote? If you know they absolutely wont even consider it, then it seems to me that the “no” isnt just to send it back for more negotiations, it’s pure spite. Please don’t vote out of spite!
I’m sure PS is great. I want PS in the JCBA; you deserve to have it back. You can believe me or not, but it’s true. This time around, my personal line in the sand was 20% at my payband. They exceeded it; barely. For the JCBA PS will be a line in the sand for me. Right now, though, 20% moves buying a house, for example, up a couple years. I can’t justify a no vote with an absolutely unknown timeline for another opportunity at a solid raise before the JCBA. We had a chance to push harder we didnt. Apparently we are saving that for the JCBA i remain skeptical |
Originally Posted by IAFDOF
(Post 3553011)
So, real question. If you know for a fact that the company is like “absolutely no way!!” to PS; then what is the no vote? If you know they absolutely wont even consider it, then it seems to me that the “no” isnt just to send it back for more negotiations, it’s pure spite. Please don’t vote out of spite!
I’m sure PS is great. I want PS in the JCBA; you deserve to have it back. You can believe me or not, but it’s true. This time around, my personal line in the sand was 20% at my payband. They exceeded it; barely. For the JCBA PS will be a line in the sand for me. Right now, though, 20% moves buying a house, for example, up a couple years. I can’t afford a no vote with an absolutely unknown timeline for another opportunity at a solid raise before the JCBA. If you think we are getting profit sharing once we have merged with a group of self described "discount pilots" I've got a bridge to sell you. People fund years of retirement, down payments on investment properties, yachts and planes in cash from just ONE YEAR of profit sharing at DAL. $50,000 checks were cut. It has ZERO to do with size and everything to do with profit created per pilot. At the same time as DAL was cutting $50,000 PS checks to its pilots, jetblue was buying back enough stock to write a $500,000 check to each pilot just to put it into perspective. Our management is greedy, they dont value your contributions, and thats why they fight PS when they probably wouldnt need to pay it for years while we merge. Just remember that when thry ask you to go above for them. Any extra revenue or profit your extra work generates goes to them, and they wont share a penny with you. Im obviously a hard no, but our group is willingly ignorant about how badly we are trailing and this will pass. If we gave away scope for free this crap samdwich is gonna be a slam dunk. |
So we’re a few months behind DL, catch them briefly next year, then end up at $340 while they’re at $350. They have profit sharing, but I’d prefer our scope. The snap up sounds good (probably the most important). I’m satisfied.
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Some of you say “Definitely PS next time”. Wait and see when you have to choose between big JCBA improvements or send it back because it didn’t include PS. I wonder what will be your choice then. Haha, its always the same.
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