TA Reached
12-30-2022 | 07:38 AM
#501
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 0
From: 320 F.O.
Control over my schedule. I currently have none and would like to get a little. When I need time off for life events it would be nice to actually say yes I can be there. And if 95-110 is high credit then you obviously don’t know the real high creditors at JB. There is always opportunities to make money in premium and RSAs I stopped thinking about VDA a while ago. DTZ and a revamp of our grid and VDA approaches would dramatically change that.
12-30-2022 | 08:27 AM
#502
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Control over my schedule. I currently have none and would like to get a little. When I need time off for life events it would be nice to actually say yes I can be there. And if 95-110 is high credit then you obviously don’t know the real high creditors at JB. There is always opportunities to make money in premium and RSAs I stopped thinking about VDA a while ago. DTZ and a revamp of our grid and VDA approaches would dramatically change that.
You have articulated the need for the reserve grid improvements, which we all want.
12-30-2022 | 08:32 AM
#503
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Wait a minute. JB has …what? 4700 pilots? And you are paranoid about DTZ because you think one (1) of them has found a way to exploit it that you haven’t figured out?
I don’t understand your fears or your concerns over the cost of it. Yeah, the company will have to add a few more people on reserve. They will need to do that regardless if there are going to have to be ANY improvements in the grid and after the latest Christmas WN IROPS disaster ALL airlines are probably going to have to do that anyway because of proposals coming out of DOT and Congress that will hold the airline responsible for hotels, per diem, and every other expense on ticketed passengers denied boarding for any reason that isn’t unequivocally an act of war or an act of God. But those people added will be the cheapest people, new hire FOs and the most junior CAs, so the hit from managements perspective won’t be as bad as it might have been.
From the presently employed pilot’s perspective, that’s that many more pilots JUNIOR TO YOU, which never hurts. For the new hires it’s an opportunity and for the new CAs it’s a chance to upgrade sooner.
From the JB pilots perspective, the whole buyout is a hell of a good deal IMHO. You get a bunch of new pilots in a group that in the aggregate is junior to you - that’s a win, a bunch of newer aircraft and a huge order book of aircraft that will dramatically lower your fleet age and a bunch of new bases. I’m not exactly sure why your so paranoid that someone is going to put something over on you. Did you have a real $hitty childhood or what?
I don’t understand your fears or your concerns over the cost of it. Yeah, the company will have to add a few more people on reserve. They will need to do that regardless if there are going to have to be ANY improvements in the grid and after the latest Christmas WN IROPS disaster ALL airlines are probably going to have to do that anyway because of proposals coming out of DOT and Congress that will hold the airline responsible for hotels, per diem, and every other expense on ticketed passengers denied boarding for any reason that isn’t unequivocally an act of war or an act of God. But those people added will be the cheapest people, new hire FOs and the most junior CAs, so the hit from managements perspective won’t be as bad as it might have been.
From the presently employed pilot’s perspective, that’s that many more pilots JUNIOR TO YOU, which never hurts. For the new hires it’s an opportunity and for the new CAs it’s a chance to upgrade sooner.
From the JB pilots perspective, the whole buyout is a hell of a good deal IMHO. You get a bunch of new pilots in a group that in the aggregate is junior to you - that’s a win, a bunch of newer aircraft and a huge order book of aircraft that will dramatically lower your fleet age and a bunch of new bases. I’m not exactly sure why your so paranoid that someone is going to put something over on you. Did you have a real $hitty childhood or what?
As I've already said, DTZ is a fine starting point. But, *IF* there are trimmings that have to happen, those trimmings shouldn't come from areas that benefit all/most of us, to help the small group who wants to exploit DTZ for $$ reasons.
I could draw you the big picture, but don't want to right now.
12-30-2022 | 08:51 AM
#504
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,776
Likes: 63
So what you really want is the GRID improvements. A guy who credits 95-110 isn't looking to get paid below guarantee. So you want a green grid, so you can drop when a "life event" happens. When that event happens, you'll have 95+ hours on the books, and can drop to 70 unpaid, then drop further via the tradeboard and/or sick. With DT50, you could have even more options. Climbto450 will never have a zero hour paycheck... That's not you. That's not 1 in 1,000 JB pilots...
You have articulated the need for the reserve grid improvements, which we all want.
You have articulated the need for the reserve grid improvements, which we all want.
How about a pilot at 75 trying to drop a 26 credit 4 day? Is there a contractual min credit fence built into your opentime folder?
12-30-2022 | 09:03 AM
#505
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 0
From: 320 F.O.
So what you really want is the GRID improvements. A guy who credits 95-110 isn't looking to get paid below guarantee. So you want a green grid, so you can drop when a "life event" happens. When that event happens, you'll have 95+ hours on the books, and can drop to 70 unpaid, then drop further via the tradeboard and/or sick. With DT50, you could have even more options. Climbto450 will never have a zero hour paycheck... That's not you. That's not 1 in 1,000 JB pilots...
You have articulated the need for the reserve grid improvements, which we all want.
You have articulated the need for the reserve grid improvements, which we all want.
12-30-2022 | 09:15 AM
#506
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Okay you are correct and maybe DT50 or DT30 will solve it with grid improvements. But the horrible grid system we have now forces me to have no life outside of work and yes even I will eventually burn out. I will never be at zero but I would love to get down to 30 to 40 a few months of the year when the kiddos are out of school. I think we all agree grid improvements are a top priority on the JCBA.
12-30-2022 | 09:25 AM
#507
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 4
From: Airplane
One thing to remember about “Drop to Zero” is the fact that it’s not just that you can just drop to zero on a month and not worry about pay, it’s a way of saying there are NO restrictions (besides red/green) to dropping of flights, there is no minimum amount of flying that is required to be done. In practical purposes, I can drop my entire line that I’m rewarded and build it back up through Open Time or X/Y list on dates that I want to fly or not fly.
This is an incredibly powerful and valuable QOL provision, one that I hope all JetBlue pilots see the value in.
This is an incredibly powerful and valuable QOL provision, one that I hope all JetBlue pilots see the value in.
12-30-2022 | 09:51 AM
#508
SDQ Base Chief
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,089
Likes: 48
From: 320 CA
One thing to remember about “Drop to Zero” is the fact that it’s not just that you can just drop to zero on a month and not worry about pay, it’s a way of saying there are NO restrictions (besides red/green) to dropping of flights, there is no minimum amount of flying that is required to be done. In practical purposes, I can drop my entire line that I’m rewarded and build it back up through Open Time or X/Y list on dates that I want to fly or not fly.
This is an incredibly powerful and valuable QOL provision, one that I hope all JetBlue pilots see the value in.
This is an incredibly powerful and valuable QOL provision, one that I hope all JetBlue pilots see the value in.
I know the NK CBA says 75% of the grid has to be green at the beginning of the schedule adjustment window, but if it is only green by 1 pilot then only 1 person can drop something, correct?
12-30-2022 | 09:51 AM
#509
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Which is fine, for those that want to play that game. The problem becomes, if and/or when something has to be trimmed from the package, it better not be something all pilots benefit from, such as hard pay improvements, tighter union control over pairing construction, retirement, healthcare, rigs, grid and/or profit sharing.
12-30-2022 | 10:04 AM
#510
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
I think many here at JB don't see the value because we have a reserve grid that makes it very difficult to drop or swap any trips. Drop to 75, 50, 25, or zero doesn't matter if the reserve grid prohibits the drop in the first place.
I know the NK CBA says 75% of the grid has to be green at the beginning of the schedule adjustment window, but if it is only green by 1 pilot then only 1 person can drop something, correct?
I know the NK CBA says 75% of the grid has to be green at the beginning of the schedule adjustment window, but if it is only green by 1 pilot then only 1 person can drop something, correct?
During initial opentime, the grid can go red fairly quickly, but it only goes red by one trip. So, as soon as *one person* decides to pick up a trip, it goes green again. If you watch the grid closely, it’s often possible to drop throughout the month even if you aren’t senior when people pick up open time.
The advantage of drop to zero is the flexibility it offers. You can drop everything, and then just pick up whenever you want to work, instead of building your life around whatever PBS screws you with.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
