​​​​​​More precisely, drop to zero appears to be a nothing burger for most of the group, but their reserve grid rules look great.

 

4 days off between work blocks (trips/reserve blocks), Drop to zero, superior premium flying system (X/Y lists) and superior reserve grid system (red/green).

That's what we got.

 

Can you explain the X/Y list?

Do you have block or better leg by leg?

100% cancelation pay?

Pay for not finishing a trip at the scheduled time (with a different flight number)?

 

I too would like to understand the "X/Y list" beyond it's name.

And all the other things you listed.

And training guarantee language. Avg daily guarantee/avg duty period/min day?

Duty period limitations? At JB its 14 hrs or 12 if it touches the redeye period (0100-0500). Redeye rest restrictions? Rescheduling/emergency assignment limitations (more than twice per year? extra pay, requirements to be returned to your original pairing or cut loose?) 4 or 10 hours pay for being rescheduled beyond 2 or 5 hours past your original trip?

Being able to drop reserve days? (Sounds like they can't even though lineholders can "drop to zero"?)

The list goes on. Looks like Delta finally secured some of our reassignment language in their TA which bolsters the argument for us to be on par with their rates.

 

Hey guys. Just giving some input as a Spirit guy less than a year on property. Keep in mind everything I’m saying applies to FLL.

The drop to zero here is awesome. During the week the grid is green 95% of the time. The weekends generally are red BUT they hover within 1-2 net reserves of going green. The second they do someone drops so it’s a game of who does it more quickly. Per our CBA, the grid has to start at 75% green. We do not have “black” when net reserves are equal. It’s green or red. We do have IOT drops that happen first based on seniority and I can generally get 1-2 weekends dropped with crap seniority. The drop system after that is all based on the grid and first come first serve.

As a junior guy I get the most garbage trips when my line is awarded. 3-4 days (my opposite preference), red eyes, back to back stacks, etc.

Every month I’ve been here as a line holder I’ve been able to drop my schedule and rebuild. As a line holder I haven’t worked one weekend and was able to rebuild my schedule consisting of solely day trips and two days. Also didn’t work thanksgiving, Christmas, or New Years. Was able to front load my schedule and leave the back of my month off for vacation without using any vacation time. Yes, the trips in open time get more slim/crappier as the month progresses but having the option to take that risk is more than worth it. If I really need/want the time off, I’m fine with dropping and keeping an eye on FLICA alerts to work trips that fit around my parameters instead of flying the garbage my seniority can hold.

My close buddies have been able to do the same. It’s not an anomaly and a lot of guys here use it all the time. I generally work Mon - Thurs and leave the weekend open for premium flying if I’m around/not doing anything.

Full disclaimer not all of our bases have the same “overall green grid” as FLL. I would imagine that in the combined company the bigger bases would benefit the most. That being said, the drop ability is a huge QOL booster for FO and Captain line holders who are not super senior in base.

Dropping to zero does not mean “not working” the whole month. It means having the flexibility to drop to zero periodically and hedge against future open time trips, trade board trips, or just plain “I’d rather not work than work that garbage trip”.

From everyone that I fly with, the drop to zero is something that most of us are willing to strike over. It really is that good. Work when you want to work. Drop certain trips when you get some premium flying. Want to go on vacation for three weeks? Just drop your trips. Our main concern is that the B6 side wont comprehend the value of it not having seen it in action first hand before it gets bargained away. It was the first item that the company wanted to try to negotiate away during our TA talks.

Looking forward to merging with you guys. Just want to make sure the drop provision gets an accurate portrayal during these upcoming TPA and JCBA negotiations because it’s a big deal for us here. I hope our union puts together good data to backup what I’m saying and it gets disseminated properly. But yeah, trust me the drop to zero is something you guys definitely want.

 

The B6 side can’t comprehend DTZ because at B6 the bottom half of the list can’t even get awarded a vacation week between May and September… let alone drop three weeks and “go on vacation” any time you want.

I want this DTZ big time. I would love to abuse the crap out of it.

But I don’t want DTZ if it means the top five guys in each base drop to zero (rather than getting stopped at 70) and they turn the grids RED for every other pilot on property.

 

Why do y'all just put words in other people's mouth then debate on it? Lol when did I say "we will have no leverage"?

We can have all the leverage in the world and the group would still pi$$ it away. Ok, throw some good QOL improvements in a JCBA without Profit Sharing and have the MEC send it to the group and see what happens. Smh. Everyone running around saying "oh we will get it in JCBA". I want that same energy 2 to 3 years from now.

Can't believe I can say this but leverage is now not the problem. The problem is us. See ya in a few years.

 

Here’s my uneducated summary of our X/Y list. No- we do not have block or better- yet. Yes, we do have 100% cancellation pay.

X list- you list out of your base. Y list is for those within 3 hours of a city we serve or want to be called and can get to the airport with 3 hours of your base-usually. X list you can decline the assignment. Y list you can not decline if you answer the phone.

You have to physically place yourself on either list each month.

List starts in seniority order from most senior to junior pilot. Calls from scheduling go out in that order. If a senior pilot takes a trip- then that pilot would then go to the bottom of this X list for the next X list call. The system repeats itself now based on seniority and X list hours flown. More X list hours flown, then you’re usually at the bottom of the list.

Other factors like schedule availability also play a role.


clear as mud?

 

Guess the JB pilots shouldn’t have given it away then, eh? Especially since it seems to be so make or break on this TA. Sounds like this reserve grid disaster is something the pilot group allowed to happen as well.

I suggest that any JB pilot in this discussion make friends with a Spirit pilot to really learn about the DTZ, and maybe lose the pi$$-poor attitude of my way or the highway at the door.

 

Wait, JB pilots gave PS away? Looks like someone doesn’t know what he is talking about.