The difference? The pay...
01-05-2006 | 01:52 PM
#51
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it's like the elephant in the room; it's still there. are you really saying you don't understand the implications of a "renewable 5-year contract"? why not just hire everyone with the understanding it's a career without 5-year chunks? it may not be something you worry about today but the option is there to get rid of anyone who causes problems like, oh, say, union organizing.
i'm amazed that you guys either really don't get it or you think it's completely acceptable.
i'm amazed that you guys either really don't get it or you think it's completely acceptable.
01-05-2006 | 02:06 PM
#52
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No, I'm saying that it's as much a check on management as it is on the pilots. Sure the potential for abuse is there. Contract abuse happens every day, but not here. If that changes, everything changes and it'll be airline/labor business as usual at JetBlue. Since they've been as good as their word so far, I give them the benefit of the doubt. But if they ever use the nuclear option on a pilot, no matter how deserving, rather than go through the contractual termination process, all bets are off.
It's called trust, Bill. Only time can tell whether it's been misplaced. You confuse that with naivete, but it's not.
It's called trust, Bill. Only time can tell whether it's been misplaced. You confuse that with naivete, but it's not.
01-05-2006 | 02:10 PM
#53
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BTW, I explained the value of a fixed term contract on another board just a while ago. I'll quote it here:
It's not a perfect system, but it's not a bad one either. There's more going on here than you seem to be aware of.
My best guess is that the contract is time limited to protect the company in the case of an industry downturn. The company is obliged to pay you minimum guarantee for the life of the contract whether or not there's any flying for you to do. A five year contract is kind of a catastrophic stopgap so that the'y don't have to pay you guarantee until you die. Since they'd have to furlough in reverse seniority order, what this means is that the first to go would have the most to gain in terms of guarantee pay, since presumably they'd have the most time left on their contracts. This makes them very expensive to furlough. This is as good a method as any of providing a de facto no-furlough clause. So in a sense, the 5 year limit protects both parties.
01-05-2006 | 03:53 PM
#54
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From: 737 Left Seat
Originally Posted by Baba Bluey
The 190 rates are an insult to me and they are an insult to everyone who works here. The good news is that those wheels are turned by Jetblue pilots and we have a chance to be a sucessful company and raise the rates that were forced upon us.
01-05-2006 | 04:00 PM
#55
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From: 737 Left Seat
BlueDude - you're saying here that they have to pay you for the years remaining on your contract, even if you're furloughed? I've not heard of that in any other contract. Is there anything in your contract that says they have to furlough junior pilots first?
01-05-2006 | 04:51 PM
#56
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From: A320
Originally Posted by Kill Bill
it's like the elephant in the room; it's still there. are you really saying you don't understand the implications of a "renewable 5-year contract"? why not just hire everyone with the understanding it's a career without 5-year chunks? it may not be something you worry about today but the option is there to get rid of anyone who causes problems like, oh, say, union organizing.
i'm amazed that you guys either really don't get it or you think it's completely acceptable.
i'm amazed that you guys either really don't get it or you think it's completely acceptable.
1) How long are the contracts you work under at your airline?
2) Are you saying you can not be fired at your airline since you have union protection?
Respectfully,
JayDub
01-05-2006 | 05:53 PM
#57
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once we are off probation, we are considered permanent employees and not subject to the whims of management. sure we can be fired but it has to be for cause, not because somebodies contract ran out. and the union has been quite vigorous in their battles for pilot's jobs.
it is not perfect but it's better than a five-year contract.
it is not perfect but it's better than a five-year contract.
01-05-2006 | 05:54 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by LuvJockey
BlueDude - you're saying here that they have to pay you for the years remaining on your contract, even if you're furloughed? I've not heard of that in any other contract. Is there anything in your contract that says they have to furlough junior pilots first?
01-05-2006 | 06:37 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by Kill Bill
you work for **** pay on a contract that might be renewable in five years or you may just find out you ****ed the wrong guy off and are out on the street to start over again. your 190 payrates look like an even bigger pile. but it's a great place to work.
SJS.
SJS.
It's got to be painful when you enjoy a creative entity like Quentin Tarantino and all you have coming out of your own feeble brain is a couple of ad hominem attacks and some meaningless expletives.
01-05-2006 | 07:18 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by Blue Dude
BTW, I explained the value of a fixed term contract on another board just a while ago. I'll quote it here:
It's not a perfect system, but it's not a bad one either. There's more going on here than you seem to be aware of.
It's not a perfect system, but it's not a bad one either. There's more going on here than you seem to be aware of.
If this is true wouldn't they just not renew who ever was up with their 5 year contract. That way they wouldn't furlough someone junior and have to pay them for the remainder of their contract.
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