benzoate

I don't. Im not sure the airline knows either. Theres still an issue with instructors, training locations, etc.

Bluedriver

12 months too late, duh.

benzoate

If any of you were around for the 190 debacle your cringing at the thought of the 220. From training to parts spares to dispatch it was dysfunctional, embarrassing and at time unsafe.

Also, Jetblue used to bring in reserve pilots to work in the office doing performance and other miscellaneous busy work. You can't make this sheet up. Who knows how this will go.

BluesClues

Where do you guys get this stuff? The annual system bid doesn’t even start until next August, and that’ll be bidding for 2020. We’re under the current system until then. Even when that starts they’re allowed to have supplemental bids, do you really think this company will be able to actually forecast out what they need a year in advance without needing help from supplemental bids? And why would 190 FO’s only be able to bid the bus to backfill upgrades? Our delivery schedule has us taking 13 A321’s next year and 15 in 2020, where do you think the FO’s for those will come from?

Yes, almost every new hire will get the 190 for the foreseeable future, but the last system bid which started the exodus) had a 1.5 year 190 FO awarded the Bus, and training starting at 23 months. Which of course is less than in the past because it used to be a 2 year seat lock. I guarantee you it will stay around the 1-1.5 year range to move from 190 FO to Bus. But don’t let facts get in way of your doom and gloom.

And yes, new hire seat lock is a year now. Guys, actually read the contract, it’s so easy.

Bluedriver

They've already begun doing what I said, just with the quarterly bid. Minimal A320 FO positions available in the bid, so the only way to get one is a backfill award when an A320 FO vacates his position for an upgrade. Then the company puts out a supplemental bid with only E190 openings that they know current pilots won't bid for.

This limits the availability of guys moving from the E190 to the A320 and limits training costs.

We will have some A320 openings, but not expecting much. And the A320 transitions will go more senior now due to the massive pay disparity.

BluesClues

You obviously don’t understand how this works. The supplemental bid for 190 FO’s isn’t to save training costs, it’s because they screwed up their staffing model and are short pilots. They could have had those 49 190 spots on the December bid and had the exact same outcome we’re about to get. There is no benefit to running a bid then running a supplemental bid behind it, it’s not some way to screw you over man. They just messed up the staffing numbers. And when they realized they needed more pilots they have to put out a system bid contractually because we have to have the option to bid it before it goes to new hires.

You also missed where I showed the last bid had a 190 FO at 1.5 years be awarded the Bus, this is after the contract was signed so I’m not seeing how it’s going to go so much more senior now. There are still a lot of guys who will stay on the 190 for QOL, or waiting for the A220, or waiting to upgrade.

I absolutely guarantee you a new hire today awarded the 190 will still be able to get on the Bus within 2 years in the junior bases.

hilltopflyer

That’s not till next year. It’s quarterly bidding till August of 2019

benzoate

Im not much of a math guy but based on the hiring numbers and aircraft deliveries I don't see the 190 transition at 1.5 years.

BluesClues

Well of course if you only look at deliveries and assume every single 190 FO or new hire wants to move over then it doesn’t look great. But that’s not how people or airlines work. That doesn’t take into consideration people that want to stay on the 190 for different reasons. Doesn’t factor reserves getting an extra day off starting January, doesn’t factor long call reserve when it starts, doesn’t factor the new vacation system when it starts, doesn’t factor planning loosening up the pairings when they get decimated after the first few IROPS, etc... All of those are staffing drivers that will have pretty big effects going forward.

pilotpayne

Oh good god here we go. Yeah you don’t want to be stuck on that 190 with “industry” leading pay (I guess that’s now bad) it’s not like you are on the seniority list or anything or that first year pay is the same.

Let’s flip it you could go 190 and keep moving up as the senior pilots go bus or go to the bus and stay exactly where you are as people keeping coming in above you.

We haven’t even started talking about the 220. But going to the 190 is not the reason to not come here. There are plenty of others but not this one.

Btw this is why the massive pay disparity was a dumb idea. They should have just paid the 190 what our 220 rates will be an maybe there wouldn’t be the exodus, but that’s just me.