JetBlue Cabin cleaning
02-28-2016, 05:23 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,383
Originally Posted by Albief15
I was hired by JB in 2001, but never went to class. 9/11 happened, and I got an offer from FedEx, and in the post 9/11 world flying boxes for such a stable company just made sense. In hindsight it was 100% right for me and my family.
That said, I was very interested in being part of a start up, and the idea of getting on so early was very enticing, especially before 9/11 occurred. One of the things that attracted me to the company was the "teamwork" aspect and the work together mentality.
A few years in the profession, however, showed me quickly how often the captain and the crew had to make important decisions and deal with issues affecting safety and legality. Listening over the years to clients tell me stories about getting violated for W&B issues, MEL problems, etc etc reminded me again and again that attention to detail is paramount in our profession. And like it or not--there is one person--the captain--who signs for that jet and in the process states that the hundreds of lives in his or her hands are safe. My thoughts on the issue are about 180 degrees out from where they were when I first entered this profession.
I don't know about the rest of you, but when I am sending my wife and daughters off around the country and world on an airline, I'd really like their 100% sole attention focused on the job at hand. I don't want an FO running his hands through a seat back looking for "gunk", but instead his/her eyes reviewing the release, weather, and notams one more time. I don't need the captain fighting a carpet stain--I want him relaxing....taking 10 or 15 minutes before the the most critical moments of his life--the moments he is carrying my family along.
Just because the crew looks "relaxed" sipping a cup of coffee up on the flight deck between segments doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. Like a boxer between rounds, or a racer between wind sprints, they are gathering their mental energy and gearing up of the next event. Odds are it will be benign and boring like the thousands of other events they've already done. Or...like my former F-15 squadron mate and 717 Captain at Delta, he might fly into an unpredicted, unannounced windshear at 400 feet on a VFR day and spend the next 2 miles flighting to claw 1000 feet of altitude. My friend is the type of guy who would buy the FAs a round from Starbucks, show them pictures of his wife and daughters and tell them he is lucky to be surrounded by beautiful ladies at home and at work...while being a complete professional. I'm glad in the moments before that day last month, he wasn't on his knees in the floor cleaning the jet, but was instead going through his standard "taking the runway V1/windshear/door opening/***..." mental checklist.
I was raised on a farm. I have literally shoveled **** for hours, and done some pretty gross things to make a dollar. I flipped burgers in High School, worked on our farm, and always had a couple jobs. I'm not afraid to get dirty. In fact, I'm proud of the dirt and crap I've had to roll in at times. Its not about work ethic. The reason the doctor doesn't scrub ER floors is not that he is too good to do such a job, but rather more than likely his services are needed elsewhere for a another surgery. He also needs the time to decompress and reflect, and get ready for the next challenge.
We forget sometimes how close death lies just outside that cockpit window. We've sterilized flying so much now we actually believe its "easy". Its only easy because we are disciplined, well trained, and fly outstanding equipment. Let's make sure that when we go to work, we honor that disciplined approach by giving it our 100% attention and focus. What would YOU want the crew to be doing if it was YOUR family getting on that flight? What is your number one concern? For me--it isn't the "teamwork" or "esprit" of the crew, or the cleanliness of their seats....its getting my treasure home to me safely. Anything else is a distraction.
That said, I was very interested in being part of a start up, and the idea of getting on so early was very enticing, especially before 9/11 occurred. One of the things that attracted me to the company was the "teamwork" aspect and the work together mentality.
A few years in the profession, however, showed me quickly how often the captain and the crew had to make important decisions and deal with issues affecting safety and legality. Listening over the years to clients tell me stories about getting violated for W&B issues, MEL problems, etc etc reminded me again and again that attention to detail is paramount in our profession. And like it or not--there is one person--the captain--who signs for that jet and in the process states that the hundreds of lives in his or her hands are safe. My thoughts on the issue are about 180 degrees out from where they were when I first entered this profession.
I don't know about the rest of you, but when I am sending my wife and daughters off around the country and world on an airline, I'd really like their 100% sole attention focused on the job at hand. I don't want an FO running his hands through a seat back looking for "gunk", but instead his/her eyes reviewing the release, weather, and notams one more time. I don't need the captain fighting a carpet stain--I want him relaxing....taking 10 or 15 minutes before the the most critical moments of his life--the moments he is carrying my family along.
Just because the crew looks "relaxed" sipping a cup of coffee up on the flight deck between segments doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. Like a boxer between rounds, or a racer between wind sprints, they are gathering their mental energy and gearing up of the next event. Odds are it will be benign and boring like the thousands of other events they've already done. Or...like my former F-15 squadron mate and 717 Captain at Delta, he might fly into an unpredicted, unannounced windshear at 400 feet on a VFR day and spend the next 2 miles flighting to claw 1000 feet of altitude. My friend is the type of guy who would buy the FAs a round from Starbucks, show them pictures of his wife and daughters and tell them he is lucky to be surrounded by beautiful ladies at home and at work...while being a complete professional. I'm glad in the moments before that day last month, he wasn't on his knees in the floor cleaning the jet, but was instead going through his standard "taking the runway V1/windshear/door opening/***..." mental checklist.
I was raised on a farm. I have literally shoveled **** for hours, and done some pretty gross things to make a dollar. I flipped burgers in High School, worked on our farm, and always had a couple jobs. I'm not afraid to get dirty. In fact, I'm proud of the dirt and crap I've had to roll in at times. Its not about work ethic. The reason the doctor doesn't scrub ER floors is not that he is too good to do such a job, but rather more than likely his services are needed elsewhere for a another surgery. He also needs the time to decompress and reflect, and get ready for the next challenge.
We forget sometimes how close death lies just outside that cockpit window. We've sterilized flying so much now we actually believe its "easy". Its only easy because we are disciplined, well trained, and fly outstanding equipment. Let's make sure that when we go to work, we honor that disciplined approach by giving it our 100% attention and focus. What would YOU want the crew to be doing if it was YOUR family getting on that flight? What is your number one concern? For me--it isn't the "teamwork" or "esprit" of the crew, or the cleanliness of their seats....its getting my treasure home to me safely. Anything else is a distraction.
02-28-2016, 05:55 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by full of luv
Hey suit yourself. It's holier than thou to point out that a professional pilot shouldn't be required to clean during a turn then so be it.
I get the pitch in attitude and all but a jb pilot started a thread saying the company required pilots and FAs to clean the airplane on a turn and wanted to point out that this is not necessarily industry standard.
I get the pitch in attitude and all but a jb pilot started a thread saying the company required pilots and FAs to clean the airplane on a turn and wanted to point out that this is not necessarily industry standard.
Wow again read what has been posted by guys on here and the Union.
Working and DH pilots ARE NOT REQUIRED TO CLEAN. I get that you would like to ignore that to make your argument but that is the way it is. As for the non rev pass guide it says all JetBlue members are expected to help. These are two very different areas.
02-28-2016, 05:58 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by Al Czervik
No one is above dirty laundry. We all have it.
I agree with the OP on all points, I think he tried to explain his view politely, and I believe he would be polite with the cleaning FO too.
May be the Pro Stands retaliation it's a bit harsh, but he said he would wait for a second event after his request.
Anyhow I still think this argument does not even deserve a thread.
OUR CUSTOMERS DON'T WANT US CLEANING. PERIOD.
Please everyone let's not ruin their perception of our professionalism, which justifies our effort to get a good contract. I think that should not be too hard to understand.
02-28-2016, 06:02 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
Best post ever.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Originally Posted by Albief15
I was hired by JB in 2001, but never went to class. 9/11 happened, and I got an offer from FedEx, and in the post 9/11 world flying boxes for such a stable company just made sense. In hindsight it was 100% right for me and my family.
That said, I was very interested in being part of a start up, and the idea of getting on so early was very enticing, especially before 9/11 occurred. One of the things that attracted me to the company was the "teamwork" aspect and the work together mentality.
A few years in the profession, however, showed me quickly how often the captain and the crew had to make important decisions and deal with issues affecting safety and legality. Listening over the years to clients tell me stories about getting violated for W&B issues, MEL problems, etc etc reminded me again and again that attention to detail is paramount in our profession. And like it or not--there is one person--the captain--who signs for that jet and in the process states that the hundreds of lives in his or her hands are safe. My thoughts on the issue are about 180 degrees out from where they were when I first entered this profession.
I don't know about the rest of you, but when I am sending my wife and daughters off around the country and world on an airline, I'd really like their 100% sole attention focused on the job at hand. I don't want an FO running his hands through a seat back looking for "gunk", but instead his/her eyes reviewing the release, weather, and notams one more time. I don't need the captain fighting a carpet stain--I want him relaxing....taking 10 or 15 minutes before the the most critical moments of his life--the moments he is carrying my family along.
Just because the crew looks "relaxed" sipping a cup of coffee up on the flight deck between segments doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. Like a boxer between rounds, or a racer between wind sprints, they are gathering their mental energy and gearing up of the next event. Odds are it will be benign and boring like the thousands of other events they've already done. Or...like my former F-15 squadron mate and 717 Captain at Delta, he might fly into an unpredicted, unannounced windshear at 400 feet on a VFR day and spend the next 2 miles flighting to claw 1000 feet of altitude. My friend is the type of guy who would buy the FAs a round from Starbucks, show them pictures of his wife and daughters and tell them he is lucky to be surrounded by beautiful ladies at home and at work...while being a complete professional. I'm glad in the moments before that day last month, he wasn't on his knees in the floor cleaning the jet, but was instead going through his standard "taking the runway V1/windshear/door opening/***..." mental checklist.
I was raised on a farm. I have literally shoveled **** for hours, and done some pretty gross things to make a dollar. I flipped burgers in High School, worked on our farm, and always had a couple jobs. I'm not afraid to get dirty. In fact, I'm proud of the dirt and crap I've had to roll in at times. Its not about work ethic. The reason the doctor doesn't scrub ER floors is not that he is too good to do such a job, but rather more than likely his services are needed elsewhere for a another surgery. He also needs the time to decompress and reflect, and get ready for the next challenge.
We forget sometimes how close death lies just outside that cockpit window. We've sterilized flying so much now we actually believe its "easy". Its only easy because we are disciplined, well trained, and fly outstanding equipment. Let's make sure that when we go to work, we honor that disciplined approach by giving it our 100% attention and focus. What would YOU want the crew to be doing if it was YOUR family getting on that flight? What is your number one concern? For me--it isn't the "teamwork" or "esprit" of the crew, or the cleanliness of their seats....its getting my treasure home to me safely. Anything else is a distraction.
That said, I was very interested in being part of a start up, and the idea of getting on so early was very enticing, especially before 9/11 occurred. One of the things that attracted me to the company was the "teamwork" aspect and the work together mentality.
A few years in the profession, however, showed me quickly how often the captain and the crew had to make important decisions and deal with issues affecting safety and legality. Listening over the years to clients tell me stories about getting violated for W&B issues, MEL problems, etc etc reminded me again and again that attention to detail is paramount in our profession. And like it or not--there is one person--the captain--who signs for that jet and in the process states that the hundreds of lives in his or her hands are safe. My thoughts on the issue are about 180 degrees out from where they were when I first entered this profession.
I don't know about the rest of you, but when I am sending my wife and daughters off around the country and world on an airline, I'd really like their 100% sole attention focused on the job at hand. I don't want an FO running his hands through a seat back looking for "gunk", but instead his/her eyes reviewing the release, weather, and notams one more time. I don't need the captain fighting a carpet stain--I want him relaxing....taking 10 or 15 minutes before the the most critical moments of his life--the moments he is carrying my family along.
Just because the crew looks "relaxed" sipping a cup of coffee up on the flight deck between segments doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. Like a boxer between rounds, or a racer between wind sprints, they are gathering their mental energy and gearing up of the next event. Odds are it will be benign and boring like the thousands of other events they've already done. Or...like my former F-15 squadron mate and 717 Captain at Delta, he might fly into an unpredicted, unannounced windshear at 400 feet on a VFR day and spend the next 2 miles flighting to claw 1000 feet of altitude. My friend is the type of guy who would buy the FAs a round from Starbucks, show them pictures of his wife and daughters and tell them he is lucky to be surrounded by beautiful ladies at home and at work...while being a complete professional. I'm glad in the moments before that day last month, he wasn't on his knees in the floor cleaning the jet, but was instead going through his standard "taking the runway V1/windshear/door opening/***..." mental checklist.
I was raised on a farm. I have literally shoveled **** for hours, and done some pretty gross things to make a dollar. I flipped burgers in High School, worked on our farm, and always had a couple jobs. I'm not afraid to get dirty. In fact, I'm proud of the dirt and crap I've had to roll in at times. Its not about work ethic. The reason the doctor doesn't scrub ER floors is not that he is too good to do such a job, but rather more than likely his services are needed elsewhere for a another surgery. He also needs the time to decompress and reflect, and get ready for the next challenge.
We forget sometimes how close death lies just outside that cockpit window. We've sterilized flying so much now we actually believe its "easy". Its only easy because we are disciplined, well trained, and fly outstanding equipment. Let's make sure that when we go to work, we honor that disciplined approach by giving it our 100% attention and focus. What would YOU want the crew to be doing if it was YOUR family getting on that flight? What is your number one concern? For me--it isn't the "teamwork" or "esprit" of the crew, or the cleanliness of their seats....its getting my treasure home to me safely. Anything else is a distraction.
02-28-2016, 06:15 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 747 captain
Posts: 1,549
Like we don't know what industry standard is.
Just the fact that some are arguing that whoever finds this policy ridiculous is "Holier than thou" tells me that the separation of the classes on this profession in the US has created an impression of industry standard that is distorted.
In my business I roll around the floor cleaning, fixing whatever needs to be fixed, from an electrical outlet to a toilet...., I'm not afraid of back breaking work, my father is 79 and although he is retired and has done very well economically, he still gets up at 5:30 every morning and goes to work on something...., a rocking chair was not invented for him. I learned a strong work ethic from him and try to give the same example to my kids.
But one thing is to work hard....., another is to belittle your profession for the "bottom line" of a corporation that really thinks very little of you as it is.
02-28-2016, 06:26 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: EMB145 CA
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by rvr1800
I'd like you to tell me the exact page it says "working crewmembers" in our FOM. It certainly is not in the pass riding guide.
02-28-2016, 06:38 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by Aviatrx
Bro!!! Read carefully. I do not work at JB and do not have a copy of your FOM. As previously stated, my reference is the e-mail sent to the thousands that have apps on file. Contained in the e-mail is the job description, requirements, and preferred experience.
It's not part of our job requirements per our FOM.
02-28-2016, 06:54 AM
#59
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by aewanabe
Full disclosure; I flew yesterday with one of the weakest FOs I've had at this company, one who was weak 6 months ago when I was new to the plane, and seems to have learned nothing in the ensuing 6 months. I don't ever, ever, belittle guys for making mistakes; I screw up myself plenty, and needling a guy or gal is the quickest way to completely destroy any semblance of CRM and take them out of the game completely. But I was essentially single pilot for the day, and upon arrival after thankfully only one leg, what happens? You guessed it. This guy is swimming upstream, with his work station not even a little tidied (iPad, trash) with the next crew trying to get into the cockpit.
So I grab all his crap from upfront, stick it in row 1, and when he meets me off the jet I very politely tell him I'd prefer he not clean, but if he chooses to do so to please have his stuff out of the cockpit first. Same conversation I had 6 months ago, same blank stare.
So with that background, I click on the hiring thread on APC, and see a pretty new guy bashing one of our pilots for pointing out that our/your MEC has asked us not to clean. Blood gets boiling, I respond, get a couple guys telling me I have no right to ASK an FO not to clean (still strongly disagree about this) and ultimately end up being far more of a jerk than I initially intended. I'll own up to that, and I'm not here to ruin anyone's career over cleaning.
In the meantime if you fly with Malcolm we are in different bases so unless you head 200 miles north you won't have to worry about avoiding me. Cheers.
So I grab all his crap from upfront, stick it in row 1, and when he meets me off the jet I very politely tell him I'd prefer he not clean, but if he chooses to do so to please have his stuff out of the cockpit first. Same conversation I had 6 months ago, same blank stare.
So with that background, I click on the hiring thread on APC, and see a pretty new guy bashing one of our pilots for pointing out that our/your MEC has asked us not to clean. Blood gets boiling, I respond, get a couple guys telling me I have no right to ASK an FO not to clean (still strongly disagree about this) and ultimately end up being far more of a jerk than I initially intended. I'll own up to that, and I'm not here to ruin anyone's career over cleaning.
In the meantime if you fly with Malcolm we are in different bases so unless you head 200 miles north you won't have to worry about avoiding me. Cheers.
Thank you for expanding on why you have been so loud on this. I'm neither new nor weak(I stay FO for QOL) and would never leave my bags up front or the cockpit a mess to help clean. I would expect a CA to make a tactful comment about something like that.
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