2 BLUE

What difference does it make if we make a profit? What size profit? What is it going to take ...50% profit margin for 50 years? If you don't make the company budget for your salary then they will always spend it on something else - they have to! You are giving away your pay to fuel the 190 CASM increase.

Are you seriously still listening to the dumbing down of a pocket session? Mind numbing.

FNG320

Blue
You are right on target! Management will never give us a pay raise on their own. Their "evaluation" of compensation will always fall short until they are forced to do so. If the company can forcast the increasing MX cost for the next ten years, they can also forecast a 3% pay raise per year for all of the employees. Financial advisors always say, pay yourself first! Well, if the go ahead and budget for the pay raise, it has a better chance of happening vs waiting for them to deem it time.

Again, blue, right on! The pocket sessions have become nothing but pep rallies. No real information is pass on any more. It is lots of fluf, followed by doom and gloom to keep us from demanding due compensation. Remember, it is bad for the pilots, but it is even worse for the FA, customer service, rampers, etc. That is who they are really talking to anymore.

Something to remember, JB, Airtran and SWA control the price in the market. If we raise prices, everyone will raise prices. You can bet that the other major airlines will not undercut our prices. They will be glad to match our increased prices. But these increased prices will allow us to make a lot more profit, while letting the other majors continue to loose money (while not quite as much). This will allow JB to fairly compensate us and plan for the pay raises. The idea of keeping market share and matching fairs has driven all of the majors into bankruptcy. We need to be leaders and set the flow and prices in the industy, and not followers of the "market share" gods.

IF mangement is using our cost to drive the majors down at the expense of employee pay, then they have no values and don't care about us.

Just my opinion....

FNG

2 BLUE

The main purpose of a pocket session is to make you think that there is a linear correlation between your salary and Chap 11. Many buy into this and it works.

Also, pocket sessions are a great place to ask the COO if you can put your jacket on when it is cold.

jetblue320

Where did you pull that one out from? We (along with AAI and SWA) control the price in the market?

Do you remember our seige of LGB and other markets (to include ATL)?

Yea, the others just sat there and left their ticket prices where they were

Get a grip Man, we don't control squat. You think the market is controlled, just wait until DL and NW are running under backruptcy, then we'll be in a real bind.

Do I want more money, hell yes, but if it is gonna put us in a jam then I guess it just ain't worth the extra few bucks an hour, now is it?

But then........


just MY opinion......


P.S. The Pocket Sessions have ALWAYS been a joke from the pilots perspective but a real RA RA get 'em get 'em for the rest of the troops.



C yaaa

2 BLUE

Well if the Ra Ra sessions are for "the rest" of the troops then stop holding them in the pilot lounge.

Ooooh ATL...what a sincere attempt to add service. 2 redeyes. What a complete joke.

Again, the repeated notion that our salary will drive the company into the dirt.

.....our salary will drive the company into the dirt.
.....our salary will drive the company into the dirt.
.....our salary will drive the company into the dirt.

Say it one more time.....magically it becomes true. It must be true.

Polly want a cracker?

Baba Bluey

http://www.apapdp.org/cms/staticfile...comparison.pdf


Scroll down to the top of page 14. Total pilot costs per ASM. JetBlue enjoys the lowest pilot CASM in the industry...by far.

banger

Thanks for posting it. Great reading.

2 BLUE

Excellent reading. It looks like we could get a 100% percent pay raise which would then only make our pilot casm average at best. Move over Southwest payrates.

So, if we double our pay (pilot CASM) JetBlue's CASM moves from 6 cents to 6.5 cents!

Oh but wait, when we get the E-190 this will drive our CASM up the same amount. So, there you have it. Without proper pilot compensation we are paying for the E-190 spread. So, why are we getting the E-190 again?

Meworry?

First of all, I think "Baba Bluey" is one of the funniest names I have heard...should be a name for one of our airplanes.

OK, sorry, but I think it is a little early to complain about pay. I have been working here for less than three years, and have made far more money than I could have at any other airline. For those that have been here longer, they have done even better. Pay rates don't tell the whole story, upgrade time is also a consideration. Data on CASM is great...good to keep in the hip pocket for the future, but even a .5 cent increase in CASM is significant at our slim profit margins (not operating margins...no one cares about that). For more junior pilots, yes, they have a different story, since upgrade times are longer and E190 pay is less than stellar. But then, they know the situation when they sign up also. For anyone with my seniority or higher, there is not one airline they could have done better at here in the states.

As upgrade times increase, I think more pressure will build to increase pay. With similar upgrade times, why come here instead of SWA? I think management will have to increase pay eventually, as long as we stay profitable.

Yes, profit does matter. In case you haven't noticed, that is the main idea in our system of private enterprise. Earnings per share is the measurement that drives up stock price. Higher profits (and cash flow) are better for all of us, leading to options worth something, more profit sharing, and higher pay. Without it, fogettaboutit.

Fuel prices. We don't control that, so it is easier to raise prices as a result of fuel cost increases. Raising prices to justify a pay raise is harder to sell.

Bottom line...anyone here with any seniority has done way better than they could have anywhere else, so how can you complain about pay? (FNG: that is not to say I totally disagree with your COL argument...but I would rather have a significant pay raise later than a couple of percent now).

OK, blast me, I can take it.

2 BLUE

We (pilots) all wish for this, however, from listening to the top 3 speak to investors and to pilots management does not share this view whatsoever.

Many pilots are NOT motivated by stock price and profit sharing. If you are motivated by dangling carrots then you accelerate the race to the bottom.

With no pension and eroding benefits you become a contract worker. If you don't even command a contract wage then we become a valueless group.

Private enterprise is about making a profit......when you are a salary worker that merely translates into an hourly wage. Pilot CASM is .5 cents. It doesn't get anymore basic than that.

I want JETBLUE to be as great as you do but I see that there is room for a .6 pilot CASM now.

I guess one solution would be to have a split contract. Guys could choose to have lower pay and keep their options,CSPP and profit sharing or one could choose to eliminate options, CSPP and profit sharing for a higher contract salary. This way both sides of the fence would get what they want but would have to give up one or the other.

(This is not a blast)