JetBlue Latest and Greatest
03-07-2017, 04:04 AM
#2911
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
From the CFO email, our cost advantage is now 9% vs the legacies. Our pilots, FA's, tech ops, and AO are among the lowest paid in the industry. We are more or less a single fleet type. So where did out cost advantage go?
Tech ventures.
Huge management structure.
Management bonuses.
The lodge.
Underpaid staff wrecking the operation.
Any other thoughts on where the cost advantage went?
Tech ventures.
Huge management structure.
Management bonuses.
The lodge.
Underpaid staff wrecking the operation.
Any other thoughts on where the cost advantage went?
03-07-2017, 04:46 AM
#2912
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: fifi whisperer
Posts: 1,255
Originally Posted by PasserOGas
From the CFO email, our cost advantage is now 9% vs the legacies. Our pilots, FA's, tech ops, and AO are among the lowest paid in the industry. We are more or less a single fleet type. So where did out cost advantage go?
Tech ventures.
Huge management structure.
Management bonuses.
The lodge.
Underpaid staff wrecking the operation.
Any other thoughts on where the cost advantage went?
Tech ventures.
Huge management structure.
Management bonuses.
The lodge.
Underpaid staff wrecking the operation.
Any other thoughts on where the cost advantage went?
Don't forget the cost of real estate in NYC and the cost of paying people more at LSC vs. moving the head quarters to OSC
03-07-2017, 04:46 AM
#2913
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by seekingblue
I know very little about you, or how long you have been in this industry, but you seem really upset that other pilots aren't happy. If you are happy at Jetblue, good for you. I mean that. It is a great thing to love where you work. That said, you need to be prepared that the guy (gal) sitting next to you has given up on Jetblue and is trying their best to leave. They may not think working here is great and they may not be willing to help out the company in any way, shape or form.
For me, I've become increasingly dissapointed with the ELT here..... to the point that i now question the future of Jetblue.I always planned on being a Jetblue pilot for life. Never updated my logbooks etc. Over thd last month (culminating with yesturdays bid with 3 upgrades through Sept. 1) I've decided that I cannot hang my hat here. I hope I'm wrong and Jetblue will succeed and be a better place to work than DL,UA, or AA. You wont see my ***** about the company, or be rude or be Negative. You wont see me picking up VDA/ RSA or flying more than 75hrs this summer. I'm going to be spending my free time going to job fairs, updating my logbook and enjoying my time off.
For me, I've become increasingly dissapointed with the ELT here..... to the point that i now question the future of Jetblue.I always planned on being a Jetblue pilot for life. Never updated my logbooks etc. Over thd last month (culminating with yesturdays bid with 3 upgrades through Sept. 1) I've decided that I cannot hang my hat here. I hope I'm wrong and Jetblue will succeed and be a better place to work than DL,UA, or AA. You wont see my ***** about the company, or be rude or be Negative. You wont see me picking up VDA/ RSA or flying more than 75hrs this summer. I'm going to be spending my free time going to job fairs, updating my logbook and enjoying my time off.
Isn't the march bid almost always crap. I need to go back and look but I don't remember them doing tons of training during the summer. We are all out along with instructors flying. I think the bulk of the planes come at the end of the year.
The other thing I would say is I feel much better with RH vs DB as our CEO. I think if we still had Dave here we would still be using the old game plan. I think RH is far more aggressive.
Just offering some other points. There is no denying we are behind in the w2 area and that does not make one angry for pointing it out.
I think the frustration is we want JetBlue to get better and be a place we can stay but it seems to be taking a long time to get there and that's hard to deal with when you look at some of the great CBAs out there.
I wouldn't use this bid as the
03-07-2017, 04:56 AM
#2914
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: fifi whisperer
Posts: 1,255
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
Just a few points.
Isn't the march bid almost always crap. I need to go back and look but I don't remember them doing tons of training during the summer. We are all out along with instructors flying. I think the bulk of the planes come at the end of the year.
The other thing I would say is I feel much better with RH vs DB as our CEO. I think if we still had Dave here we would still be using the old game plan. I think RH is far more aggressive.
Just offering some other points. There is no denying we are behind in the w2 area and that does not make one angry for pointing it out.
I think the frustration is we want JetBlue to get better and be a place we can stay but it seems to be taking a long time to get there and that's hard to deal with when you look at some of the great CBAs out there.
I wouldn't use this bid as the
Isn't the march bid almost always crap. I need to go back and look but I don't remember them doing tons of training during the summer. We are all out along with instructors flying. I think the bulk of the planes come at the end of the year.
The other thing I would say is I feel much better with RH vs DB as our CEO. I think if we still had Dave here we would still be using the old game plan. I think RH is far more aggressive.
Just offering some other points. There is no denying we are behind in the w2 area and that does not make one angry for pointing it out.
I think the frustration is we want JetBlue to get better and be a place we can stay but it seems to be taking a long time to get there and that's hard to deal with when you look at some of the great CBAs out there.
I wouldn't use this bid as the
Thank you for the well thought out and well reasoned response.
I guess hearing the "we are to expensive" memo and the 3 net upgrades (and lack of upgrades in the previous bids) was enough for me to reevaluate my goals and priorities.
Not saying it's right for everyone, but it's enough for me to start sending out apps and start looking for greener pastures.
03-07-2017, 05:59 AM
#2915
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by seekingblue
Thank you for the well thought out and well reasoned response.
I guess hearing the "we are to expensive" memo and the 3 net upgrades (and lack of upgrades in the previous bids) was enough for me to reevaluate my goals and priorities.
Not saying it's right for everyone, but it's enough for me to start sending out apps and start looking for greener pastures.
I guess hearing the "we are to expensive" memo and the 3 net upgrades (and lack of upgrades in the previous bids) was enough for me to reevaluate my goals and priorities.
Not saying it's right for everyone, but it's enough for me to start sending out apps and start looking for greener pastures.
With that said he is a CFO that's what they say. Not making an excuse but his job is to control costs so it wasn't a huge surprise. Delta just talked about their costs going up.(and our stock along with others took a dive)
Again I'll say it fill out the apps get the interview and the job offer and than decide. You never know what will happen. I thought AWAC was dead with no chance, now they have 5 more years and the great guys over there have a shot a getting on with United.
This industry turns on a dime, I have a feeling we will know the direction of JetBlue by the fall. They need to decide about the 321lr and what to do with the 190s. To me it seems like we are trying to get the airline in great financial shape paying down debt and getting ready for more growth. But that is me. Others will tell you something totally different. Like I told ATR in a PM. I hate sitting in the left seat and hearing a guy say he wants to leave ASAP it shouldn't be that way and I hope one day it isn't.
03-07-2017, 07:09 AM
#2916
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by WhiteHammer
Not my W2.
If you have a high W2 it's either because you sell back all of your vacation/PTO/sick time (which your peers don't have to do to make what you make) or do RSA's/VDA's or are a FLICA ***** (again something your peers don't have to do to make what you make) and spend all your time in an aeroplane.
You disgust me almost as much as Hyperboy embarrasses me.
03-07-2017, 07:16 AM
#2917
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by ridinhigh
When do the Airbus deliveries start?
Just curious on the timing of our TA at HA and the perceived 'shortage ' there and how they could be connected? It's a common question, what was the motivation for the company to negotiate now?
Our first three A321 neos are well behind schedule now planned for October/November instead of May/June. Not only did the original bid not get canceled they just put out one with 30 more CA slots. For........ you guessed it, planes that aren't here. But due in 2018.
You wanted VX. Maybe it's HA now? 2.6B market cap.
We have 16 firm and 9 options with already added leases to increase the fleet size just like what happened to the A330.
Anyway, fodder for the brain.
Who knows.
Just curious on the timing of our TA at HA and the perceived 'shortage ' there and how they could be connected? It's a common question, what was the motivation for the company to negotiate now?
Our first three A321 neos are well behind schedule now planned for October/November instead of May/June. Not only did the original bid not get canceled they just put out one with 30 more CA slots. For........ you guessed it, planes that aren't here. But due in 2018.
You wanted VX. Maybe it's HA now? 2.6B market cap.
We have 16 firm and 9 options with already added leases to increase the fleet size just like what happened to the A330.
Anyway, fodder for the brain.
Who knows.
03-07-2017, 07:18 AM
#2918
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
Very interesting perspective. Thanks for the post and you could definitely be on to something.
After the VA thing, that "organic" growth went out the window.
03-07-2017, 07:26 AM
#2919
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
That's funny my post died at the end because I wasn't going to post it(I didn't want to start my day with bluedriver screaming at me). Guess I hit the wrong button.
With that said he is a CFO that's what they say. Not making an excuse but his job is to control costs so it wasn't a huge surprise. Delta just talked about their costs going up.(and our stock along with others took a dive)
Again I'll say it fill out the apps get the interview and the job offer and than decide. You never know what will happen. I thought AWAC was dead with no chance, now they have 5 more years and the great guys over there have a shot a getting on with United.
This industry turns on a dime, I have a feeling we will know the direction of JetBlue by the fall. They need to decide about the 321lr and what to do with the 190s. To me it seems like we are trying to get the airline in great financial shape paying down debt and getting ready for more growth. But that is me. Others will tell you something totally different. Like I told ATR in a PM. I hate sitting in the left seat and hearing a guy say he wants to leave ASAP it shouldn't be that way and I hope one day it isn't.
With that said he is a CFO that's what they say. Not making an excuse but his job is to control costs so it wasn't a huge surprise. Delta just talked about their costs going up.(and our stock along with others took a dive)
Again I'll say it fill out the apps get the interview and the job offer and than decide. You never know what will happen. I thought AWAC was dead with no chance, now they have 5 more years and the great guys over there have a shot a getting on with United.
This industry turns on a dime, I have a feeling we will know the direction of JetBlue by the fall. They need to decide about the 321lr and what to do with the 190s. To me it seems like we are trying to get the airline in great financial shape paying down debt and getting ready for more growth. But that is me. Others will tell you something totally different. Like I told ATR in a PM. I hate sitting in the left seat and hearing a guy say he wants to leave ASAP it shouldn't be that way and I hope one day it isn't.
I don't think that is unreasonable.
For those considering JB, honestly, we are now relatively slow growing, have no pilot retirements, have very bad health insurance, sub-par retirement contributions, very bad/non-existent work rules, fly a metric crap-ton of red-eyes and pay rates that are a fraction of the current market rates.
This is NOT the place to be right now. Will it all get better? Maybe, maybe not! The executives are fighting hard to keep things the way they are right now, so you have been warned.
03-07-2017, 08:07 AM
#2920
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
I don't scream at you Joe. Just want you and the bluebelles to put away your blue pom poms until (don't know if or when) management changes their policy of compensation 30-40% below our peers at a time when we have industry leading profit margins.
I don't think that is unreasonable.
For those considering JB, honestly, we are now relatively slow growing, have no pilot retirements, have very bad health insurance, sub-par retirement contributions, very bad/non-existent work rules, fly a metric crap-ton of red-eyes and pay rates that are a fraction of the current market rates.
This is NOT the place to be right now. Will it all get better? Maybe, maybe not! The executives are fighting hard to keep things the way they are right now, so you have been warned.
I don't think that is unreasonable.
For those considering JB, honestly, we are now relatively slow growing, have no pilot retirements, have very bad health insurance, sub-par retirement contributions, very bad/non-existent work rules, fly a metric crap-ton of red-eyes and pay rates that are a fraction of the current market rates.
This is NOT the place to be right now. Will it all get better? Maybe, maybe not! The executives are fighting hard to keep things the way they are right now, so you have been warned.
I am sorry BD I thought I sent my post to you for official approval,
guess it didn't make it. Sorry I even said FILL OUT YOUR APPS but the rest could have been construed as being positive and helping recruit. Don't worry I'll do better next time.
The above is sarcasm just like saying you will yell at me in the other post.
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