Left behind 21 minutes prior to departure
11-08-2016 | 10:34 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Wow. You have the wrong attitude.
That captain got someone on a flight that was supposed to be on a flight. Last I checked we are in the business of moving people from A to B. If someone was there on time or even a little late, it is up to the on scene leader to make the decision to let them on or not based on the information that they have available to them.
I am a SWA pilot, but am following this thread because this was us two years ago. We were leaving behind people at the gate 15 minutes prior because ground ops took the power away from us to make decisions like this. Our union lobbied hard and educated members and now this is much, much less prevalent.
Take the power back, guys. You are the Captain/FO, and you get paid to make these decisions. What is the ultimate goal? I'll tell you, it's an on time arrival. Look at what the flight is blocked for vs the estimated flight time and see if you have a few minutes of wiggle room. If you are the last flight of the day, stand at the gate podium until 3 minutes prior to push and make sure you have everyone (including revenue pax who are often left standing there).
We have a new delay code HD20 that basically says the aircraft pushed late because the captain determined he can still accommodate late arriving pax or nonrevs and still make an on time arrival. SWAPA and our flight ops leadership came up with this idea and pushed it on to ground ops. When the ground ops folks know that the pressure is off of them, they will become much more cooperative. The other thing we can do at SWA is just say "put the delay on me" because there are literally zero consequences for pilots for pushing late if we are doing checklists, briefing, or using the bathroom.
I was once on a flight going to CUN that was told to push without connecting passengers from the west coast who got weather diverted and were going to be ten minutes late. The next flight was two days away and they were going to have their vacation plans totally screwed up. The captain was going to push and I stood up and said my stomach hurt and I had to use the bathroom. Ten minutes of sitting in a bathroom stall later, I got a huge hug from the gate agent and a teary eyed thank you from the passengers who thought they were screwed.
Take the power back. Do not let ground ops get the upper hand. Be the on scene leader.
Rant over. I'll go back to my corner. Please, please look out for each other out there, guys.
That captain got someone on a flight that was supposed to be on a flight. Last I checked we are in the business of moving people from A to B. If someone was there on time or even a little late, it is up to the on scene leader to make the decision to let them on or not based on the information that they have available to them.
I am a SWA pilot, but am following this thread because this was us two years ago. We were leaving behind people at the gate 15 minutes prior because ground ops took the power away from us to make decisions like this. Our union lobbied hard and educated members and now this is much, much less prevalent.
Take the power back, guys. You are the Captain/FO, and you get paid to make these decisions. What is the ultimate goal? I'll tell you, it's an on time arrival. Look at what the flight is blocked for vs the estimated flight time and see if you have a few minutes of wiggle room. If you are the last flight of the day, stand at the gate podium until 3 minutes prior to push and make sure you have everyone (including revenue pax who are often left standing there).
We have a new delay code HD20 that basically says the aircraft pushed late because the captain determined he can still accommodate late arriving pax or nonrevs and still make an on time arrival. SWAPA and our flight ops leadership came up with this idea and pushed it on to ground ops. When the ground ops folks know that the pressure is off of them, they will become much more cooperative. The other thing we can do at SWA is just say "put the delay on me" because there are literally zero consequences for pilots for pushing late if we are doing checklists, briefing, or using the bathroom.
I was once on a flight going to CUN that was told to push without connecting passengers from the west coast who got weather diverted and were going to be ten minutes late. The next flight was two days away and they were going to have their vacation plans totally screwed up. The captain was going to push and I stood up and said my stomach hurt and I had to use the bathroom. Ten minutes of sitting in a bathroom stall later, I got a huge hug from the gate agent and a teary eyed thank you from the passengers who thought they were screwed.
Take the power back. Do not let ground ops get the upper hand. Be the on scene leader.
Rant over. I'll go back to my corner. Please, please look out for each other out there, guys.
11-08-2016 | 10:46 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
From: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
I have to give kudos to two of your colleagues yesterday that operated the 620p from MCO to DFW. AA was running 3 hr delays so I popped over to SWA for a flight home from recurrent. Full boat. Offering vouchers. Weight restricted. CA had restriction removed and jammed two jumpseaters into that 737 cockpit (29 year Delta 767 CA got the "coveted" spot behind the CA and I got the one between the crew - which makes me the logistics officer for that big honking thing you use for perf numbers
. )Another SWA pilot opted for the FA jumpseat to get us on. Microburst on approach to DAL Divert to AUS. Gas and go. Classy crew all the way and extended us phenomenal courtesy getting home. Thank you SWA.
. )Another SWA pilot opted for the FA jumpseat to get us on. Microburst on approach to DAL Divert to AUS. Gas and go. Classy crew all the way and extended us phenomenal courtesy getting home. Thank you SWA.
11-08-2016 | 12:02 PM
#43
Not A Janitor
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 814
Likes: 0
Here's a couple ideas from someone who commuted for over 20 years:
1. Plan your commute as if you were a revenue passenger...a minimum of 45 minutes from your release time to your commuter flight push.
Oh, yeah. Late arrival and you're trying to catch the last flight home for the night but... your fault if you didn't have a 45 minute connection!
2. List for your flights on airlines that require it. The easier you make the CSA's job, the more likely you'll get on.
3. Be aware of commuter listing at the gate cutoff times. Usually it's the same time as the check in cutoff time for issuing non-rev seats (30 minutes prior to push at many airlines).
10 minutes at JetBlue is the official policy. So don't demonize your fellow pilots who run up at 15 prior and are miffed that they got stranded because some CSA decides they can trump SOP.
4. Recognize that on time departures are the critical metric by which CSAs are evaluated. These days that includes the ten minute prior to schedule door closing time.
Most importantly...
5. THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND YOUR COMMUTE. If you miss a flight...Grow up, quit whining, put on your big boy pants and go to your next option.
Out of touch, much? No one is whining, rather complaining about CSAs violating SOP and stranding them at the gate.
1. Plan your commute as if you were a revenue passenger...a minimum of 45 minutes from your release time to your commuter flight push.
Oh, yeah. Late arrival and you're trying to catch the last flight home for the night but... your fault if you didn't have a 45 minute connection!
2. List for your flights on airlines that require it. The easier you make the CSA's job, the more likely you'll get on.
3. Be aware of commuter listing at the gate cutoff times. Usually it's the same time as the check in cutoff time for issuing non-rev seats (30 minutes prior to push at many airlines).
10 minutes at JetBlue is the official policy. So don't demonize your fellow pilots who run up at 15 prior and are miffed that they got stranded because some CSA decides they can trump SOP.
4. Recognize that on time departures are the critical metric by which CSAs are evaluated. These days that includes the ten minute prior to schedule door closing time.
Most importantly...
5. THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND YOUR COMMUTE. If you miss a flight...Grow up, quit whining, put on your big boy pants and go to your next option.
Out of touch, much? No one is whining, rather complaining about CSAs violating SOP and stranding them at the gate.
11-09-2016 | 10:14 PM
#44
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 146
Likes: 4
Here's a couple ideas from someone who commuted for over 20 years:
1. Plan your commute as if you were a revenue passenger...a minimum of 45 minutes from your release time to your commuter flight push.
2. List for your flights on airlines that require it. The easier you make the CSA's job, the more likely you'll get on.
3. Be aware of commuter listing at the gate cutoff times. Usually it's the same time as the check in cutoff time for issuing non-rev seats (30 minutes prior to push at many airlines).
4. Recognize that on time departures are the critical metric by which CSAs are evaluated. These days that includes the ten minute prior to schedule door closing time.
Most importantly...
5. THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND YOUR COMMUTE. If you miss a flight...Grow up, quit whining, put on your big boy pants and go to your next option.
So in other words, you made a scene and caused a fellow employee to get a 6 minute late push on his/her employment record. You're a real hero.
1. Plan your commute as if you were a revenue passenger...a minimum of 45 minutes from your release time to your commuter flight push.
2. List for your flights on airlines that require it. The easier you make the CSA's job, the more likely you'll get on.
3. Be aware of commuter listing at the gate cutoff times. Usually it's the same time as the check in cutoff time for issuing non-rev seats (30 minutes prior to push at many airlines).
4. Recognize that on time departures are the critical metric by which CSAs are evaluated. These days that includes the ten minute prior to schedule door closing time.
Most importantly...
5. THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND YOUR COMMUTE. If you miss a flight...Grow up, quit whining, put on your big boy pants and go to your next option.
So in other words, you made a scene and caused a fellow employee to get a 6 minute late push on his/her employment record. You're a real hero.
This was two separate events.
The first, I acknowledge I was later than normal to the gate. However as you have recommended, I was already listed AND checked-in. Only thing I needed was the door open so I could walk on the plane. Nothing else for the AO to do, assuming they had already assigned seats for all the nonrevs.
I'm also perfectly aware the world doesn't revolve around myself. When the AO came back up, I asked them to move me to the next flight, and thanked them for doing so. I made no scene, and maintained professionalism with my co-worker.
The second event, was one where we accommodated a pilot from another airline. They made their necessary show time of 10 prior to departure, because as I said before, we were 16 to push. This person was visibly distraught in the gate area which we could see from the flight deck, as we were the difference between them sleeping in their own bed or not that night. No other flights were going where we were until the following day. We made a judgement call and requested the AO to bring the bridge back. And I will emphasize again, we still left 4 minutes EARLY, not late. No one's employment record was affected.
11-10-2016 | 05:40 AM
#46
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 919
Likes: 3
11-13-2016 | 02:53 PM
#47
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 739
Likes: 22
I have to say that since it started, we've been out noticeably earlier than before, at least on the trips I've flown so something might be working....now granted these are 190s, Caribbean 190 trips with people bringing the kitchen sink from SJU to STI, but still 190s. How a high density 321 loaded to the teeth is fairing, I couldn't say.
11-14-2016 | 10:37 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
From: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
I have to say that since it started, we've been out noticeably earlier than before, at least on the trips I've flown so something might be working....now granted these are 190s, Caribbean 190 trips with people bringing the kitchen sink from SJU to STI, but still 190s. How a high density 321 loaded to the teeth is fairing, I couldn't say.
11-18-2016 | 01:20 PM
#50
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
One year in, I have yet to fly with a CA that took the walk. Lots of pushing early, single engine taxi, and very efficient flying techniques. Lots of good ole company guys taking care of mother Blue.
You had better get there early if you want to get on!
You had better get there early if you want to get on!
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