Looking Back
05-29-2010, 05:36 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"I merely drag the facts into the daylight for all to see and let them come to their own conclusions."
Oh man....I try to not post here anymore, but this is just too good.
Sky, I deleted all your quotes I've saved over the years. I had decided it's just not worth my trouble to refute your stuff.
But I gotta say, in case any newbs are around, that your FACTS are stuff you make up and/or pull out of your ***. Skyhigh was an F/O at Horizon and then went to National (N7), which went out of business in 2002. He quit, and got out of the biz, at that point.
I just can't let your latest drivel go as I sit here realizing that my wildest dreams in aviation have exceeded my teenage expectations by ten fold. Maybe twenty fold, as a AME once said I wouldn't be a successful commercial pilot cause I didn't have 20/20 uncorrected vision. Thank gawd I didn't listen to him....
Sky, I'd have no trouble with you if you just told your story and left it at that. But your projecting YOUR story as the only possible outcome for the future of all aviation professionals is laughable. Not everyone will be in your shoes. Not everyone has your goals in life. And not everyone will give up after having 121 757 F/O time.
To each his own....
Oh man....I try to not post here anymore, but this is just too good.
Sky, I deleted all your quotes I've saved over the years. I had decided it's just not worth my trouble to refute your stuff.
But I gotta say, in case any newbs are around, that your FACTS are stuff you make up and/or pull out of your ***. Skyhigh was an F/O at Horizon and then went to National (N7), which went out of business in 2002. He quit, and got out of the biz, at that point.
I just can't let your latest drivel go as I sit here realizing that my wildest dreams in aviation have exceeded my teenage expectations by ten fold. Maybe twenty fold, as a AME once said I wouldn't be a successful commercial pilot cause I didn't have 20/20 uncorrected vision. Thank gawd I didn't listen to him....
Sky, I'd have no trouble with you if you just told your story and left it at that. But your projecting YOUR story as the only possible outcome for the future of all aviation professionals is laughable. Not everyone will be in your shoes. Not everyone has your goals in life. And not everyone will give up after having 121 757 F/O time.
To each his own....
05-29-2010, 07:13 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Salty -
A fine message - but one that will go ignored I'm afraid. You were much better with the fancy typing skills and qoting others to make your point than I ever was
, but I have given Sky the EXACT same advice. I've told him that his extremist downside views shut out more people than help. He claims education is his cause and I have told him that a more balanced approach - admitting that there are goods while making sure that others know of the dangers - would get his message across to the masses. It is unfortunately in my opinion that his dramatics reminds me of my new teenage daughter who has no perspective on life and everything little thing is the end all of the world as we know it. It is just hard to take any of her VALID concerns and situations seriously because she cries THE SKY IS FALLING at every chance.
Sky likes to incite. There is NO DOUBT that he had SOME good times in flying, but he rarely (IF EVER) mentions them. As you mentioned - he has some great stories and even better lessons to share with other aviators of all experience levels - but he does not communicate his message in an effective manner.
Thanks for taking a shot at it though Salty.
BushwickBill -
Appreciate your insight - but I certainly wouldn't have expected every day to be peaches and herbs in Alaska bush flying - agreed? That environment, and the challenges associated with it, was part of the draw to bush flying. I seriously doubt that I would have stayed in Alaska forever and made that my life's work because I had other plans....and I pursued them in spite of the negative nellies standing in my way at every corner.
If some less than desirable conditions was all that it was going to take to scare me away from the job, then I wouldn't have lasted long in my last profession either. Maybe I wanted to try the bush flying to see if I had what it takes to make it; doubtful I will ever know
As far as what you like and where it sounds like you may have ended up - - well you and I think A LOT alike!
USMCFLYR
A fine message - but one that will go ignored I'm afraid. You were much better with the fancy typing skills and qoting others to make your point than I ever was
, but I have given Sky the EXACT same advice. I've told him that his extremist downside views shut out more people than help. He claims education is his cause and I have told him that a more balanced approach - admitting that there are goods while making sure that others know of the dangers - would get his message across to the masses. It is unfortunately in my opinion that his dramatics reminds me of my new teenage daughter who has no perspective on life and everything little thing is the end all of the world as we know it. It is just hard to take any of her VALID concerns and situations seriously because she cries THE SKY IS FALLING at every chance.Sky likes to incite. There is NO DOUBT that he had SOME good times in flying, but he rarely (IF EVER) mentions them. As you mentioned - he has some great stories and even better lessons to share with other aviators of all experience levels - but he does not communicate his message in an effective manner.
Thanks for taking a shot at it though Salty.
BushwickBill -
Appreciate your insight - but I certainly wouldn't have expected every day to be peaches and herbs in Alaska bush flying - agreed? That environment, and the challenges associated with it, was part of the draw to bush flying. I seriously doubt that I would have stayed in Alaska forever and made that my life's work because I had other plans....and I pursued them in spite of the negative nellies standing in my way at every corner.
If some less than desirable conditions was all that it was going to take to scare me away from the job, then I wouldn't have lasted long in my last profession either. Maybe I wanted to try the bush flying to see if I had what it takes to make it; doubtful I will ever know
As far as what you like and where it sounds like you may have ended up - - well you and I think A LOT alike!
USMCFLYR
Your right of course, but then both of us overcame the multiple adversities in our path and pressed on. Both of us are OK with a change of venue, watched folks all the time bail out into something different that suited their needs and desires.(Both military and commercial). Very respectable and honorable.
Always intrigued by the ones who are positive about the whole experience despite incredible obstacles and challenges. Some are now medical doctors, lawyers, biologists, accountants, managers of manufacturing plants, engineers, real estate, etc. These folks point out how the challenges of aviation prepared them to excel in their new professions with a sense of peace and joy, truly with no regrets. Afterall, they did it, and went on to a future success pointing out the positives and yes, the reasons they made new choices. Some just like to engage in the negative and it truly detracts from their intended message. The irony: Their are several posters on APC that are positive about the change and share a very good message about the challenges and other choices available after deciding the commercial cockpit chapter needed to close.
Best to ya!
05-29-2010, 09:44 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
No insult intended, of course
Originally Posted by de727ups
Sky, I deleted all your quotes I've saved over the years.
I don't understand why you deleted them. Did you not enjoy re-reading his posted allegations that those who persist in following this career are: "immature", "irresponsible", "sociopaths", and "button-pushing automatons"? Such persuasive and informative analysis of airline pilots should be preserved and treasured.
05-29-2010, 10:52 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
The thing that kills me the most about my dead airline career is how I wasted my youth pining over aviation magazines and working several jobs to pay for training while my friends smoked pot and chased girls.
All the wasted years I spent in my 20's living in huts in the cold north flying the bush while my buddies played in the sun back home I will never get back. Man what a spectacular time I could have had with all the money I spent and long nights wasted at the gas station trying to dutifully pay for my next lesson.
And here I thought I was putting my time to better more diligent use. Oh well. Next life I guess.
Skyhigh
All the wasted years I spent in my 20's living in huts in the cold north flying the bush while my buddies played in the sun back home I will never get back. Man what a spectacular time I could have had with all the money I spent and long nights wasted at the gas station trying to dutifully pay for my next lesson.
And here I thought I was putting my time to better more diligent use.
Oh well. Next life I guess. Skyhigh
One of the great things about living in the US is that we are afforded many opportunities to reinvent ourselves and explore various vocations throughout our lifetimes. Almost everybody in my family has done it, and with great success. I've known many others throughout my life that have done the same.
After working as an engineer for several years, I knew it was not something that was going to make me happy. I focused my efforts on an aviation career, and have been a professional pilot for over three years now. I'm very happy with the decision I made, and I would definitely do it again (and like before, I'd do it without getting into debt).
If something were to happen that required another career change, I'm confident that I'd be able to make that happen (again). Would I regret my time in aviation? Absolutely not. As a fledgling professional pilot, I've learned a lot about myself, my strengths, weaknesses, fears, and what I'm capable of doing. It's changed me as a person, and it has changed my life forever with the experiences I've had, the people I've met and befriended, and the places I've seen.
The fact that you still hold so much contempt over your brief stint as a professional pilot is really sad. You are letting your distant past control your present self, with nothing but sad excuses and self pity to explain your present unhappiness. It's not normal. Ok? Do you understand that? You need to get some help... I wish you the best, and I hope you are able to heal and improve your future.
05-30-2010, 07:25 AM
#35
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Breif Stint?
To me my aviation dream was not a "brief stint". I took my first lesson at 14 years of age and slowly climbed the ladder from there. I paid my own way through college and bought all my ratings one at a time. I did not have a sponsor opening doors for me. Each job I got was hard campaigned for. The longer it took and the harder the trail was my expectations grew to justify my sacrifices. When my non-flying friends were buying houses and getting married I was sleeping in my truck and dreaming of a studio apartment.
I did not quit. I was in my upper 30's when my company shut down. I tried to find another decent flying job but could not find one that was worth risking my families happiness over for the money being offered. Just the other night I had dinner with two pilot friends who were passing through town in a shared Uhaul. They both had been laid off from their corporate job and were moving their families back home in the west. One is going to start college in the fall the other has no idea of what to do.
Neither of them are facing an attractive future. One of them had to leave a foreclosed home. That is the problem with this career. It is a treadmill of broken dreams. Pilots get in reach a point where they are financially squeezed out of the industry and then silently start over. New pilots need the facts. They need to know what their statistical chances are. Having a good attitude is far from being good enough.
I believed in what I was doing because I thought surly it would lead to a better life. I thought that there was no way life or aviation could deny a determined man his due after such an effort. Over time I began to notice that none of my peers seemed to be making it to their dreams either. Most of my ex co-workers who are still in aviation are now stuck in the middle east.
What kind of life is that?
Skyhigh
I did not quit. I was in my upper 30's when my company shut down. I tried to find another decent flying job but could not find one that was worth risking my families happiness over for the money being offered. Just the other night I had dinner with two pilot friends who were passing through town in a shared Uhaul. They both had been laid off from their corporate job and were moving their families back home in the west. One is going to start college in the fall the other has no idea of what to do.
Neither of them are facing an attractive future. One of them had to leave a foreclosed home. That is the problem with this career. It is a treadmill of broken dreams. Pilots get in reach a point where they are financially squeezed out of the industry and then silently start over. New pilots need the facts. They need to know what their statistical chances are. Having a good attitude is far from being good enough.
I believed in what I was doing because I thought surly it would lead to a better life. I thought that there was no way life or aviation could deny a determined man his due after such an effort. Over time I began to notice that none of my peers seemed to be making it to their dreams either. Most of my ex co-workers who are still in aviation are now stuck in the middle east.
What kind of life is that?
Skyhigh
05-30-2010, 07:44 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Aloha,
I was able to accomplish a lot of things however none of them lead to the completion of my goal. My journey to aviation was long and painful. I did a lot of things that I did not want to do because the trail lead there and I though that on the other side of the list of sacrifices was my goal.
I ended up wasting the best years of my life, youthful momentum and determination on a dead end. It all was a waste. My peers who all lead monotonous lives now can enjoy status, respect and value in their careers.
I do measure myself by the job. It becomes more important as we age. Now approaching middle age feel like a fool. I don't know how old you are but accomplishments and professional status begin to mean more as we get older. My flying career took the best of my time and resources. I have seen a lot of my peers reduced to a small apartment by middle age thanks to their flying career. No family, few friends and no life. We are doing well but it is not what I had hoped for.
I don't know what to tell my children.
Skyhigh
I was able to accomplish a lot of things however none of them lead to the completion of my goal. My journey to aviation was long and painful. I did a lot of things that I did not want to do because the trail lead there and I though that on the other side of the list of sacrifices was my goal.
I ended up wasting the best years of my life, youthful momentum and determination on a dead end. It all was a waste. My peers who all lead monotonous lives now can enjoy status, respect and value in their careers.
I do measure myself by the job. It becomes more important as we age. Now approaching middle age feel like a fool. I don't know how old you are but accomplishments and professional status begin to mean more as we get older. My flying career took the best of my time and resources. I have seen a lot of my peers reduced to a small apartment by middle age thanks to their flying career. No family, few friends and no life. We are doing well but it is not what I had hoped for.
I don't know what to tell my children.
Skyhigh
05-30-2010, 07:50 AM
#37
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Married?
Are any of you guys married? I have placed my life on display here for all to see. I bet that most of you have circumstances that if honestly revealed would make for interesting conversation and would explain a lot about the attitudes you have. Divorced maybe? Single and never been married perhaps? Broke? Kids will not speak to you anymore and call another man daddy.
It seems to me that some pilots who have given it all and have few friends, family or wealth are placed into a position of ardently defending aviation over facing the harsh reality that they blew it on an irrational obsession. They are married to the job and do not want to acknowledge even to themselves what they had to give in trade for the left seat.
Somewhere along the line I began to realize the growing opportunity cost of my career. A job should not be so hard or demand so much. At some point I had to choose life over my dream. It should not have to be that way. I thought I was buying into a profession to build my life upon. Instead I entered into a career that demands the extermination of everything else I held dear in order to keep climbing the ladder.
I spent 20 years and my best efforts in the pursuit. It is my life's work. I am understandably upset and disappointed by my chosen career. Others need to know what they are getting into.
Skyhigh
It seems to me that some pilots who have given it all and have few friends, family or wealth are placed into a position of ardently defending aviation over facing the harsh reality that they blew it on an irrational obsession. They are married to the job and do not want to acknowledge even to themselves what they had to give in trade for the left seat.
Somewhere along the line I began to realize the growing opportunity cost of my career. A job should not be so hard or demand so much. At some point I had to choose life over my dream. It should not have to be that way. I thought I was buying into a profession to build my life upon. Instead I entered into a career that demands the extermination of everything else I held dear in order to keep climbing the ladder.
I spent 20 years and my best efforts in the pursuit. It is my life's work. I am understandably upset and disappointed by my chosen career. Others need to know what they are getting into.
Skyhigh
05-30-2010, 07:57 AM
#38
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
I agree.
Originally Posted by Dan64456
Interesting... For me, my status and position become less important as I age, and my friends I see less and less of and more so, my family, become more important. I don't have a wife and kids either. The older I get, the more I realize that money and material things only go so far. And that's not very far at all. The stress that comes along with being fake to make all this money outweighs the prize in my opinion. The alternative is to be born into it, like a majority of my generation who are trust fund babies. I always tell them to go ahead and eat their 85 dollar filet's, and I guarantee you the 15 bux I spend at Outback will go further. And I will have an even better time because I can be myself and not put on some charade to pretend I care about the position my fork and knife is in. Plus I'd rather drink the 22 ounce Fosters than the overpriced red wine. Most 'premium' things in life are simply marked up exponentially for the rich anyway. They may only be 1.5 times as good, but cost 20 times more. I'd rather have peace of mind than status... and making a ton of money is not peace of mind. Loving what you do and the people in your life - probably is.
We are not talking about $85 dollar steaks but the ability to provide for yourself, and family, and to justify the investment made in training, education and sacrifice. Aviation should pay far more and offer greater stability for what it takes to get there and to stay there.
Skyhigh
05-30-2010, 08:15 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
I agree however danger lies in selling yourself short to justify making a bad decision. The best things in life do not come from money however it does take a sizable amount of cash to properly fund a family, retirement and life.
We are not talking about $85 dollar steaks but the ability to provide for yourself, and family, and to justify the investment made in training, education and sacrifice. Aviation should pay far more and offer greater stability for what it takes to get there and to stay there.
Skyhigh
We are not talking about $85 dollar steaks but the ability to provide for yourself, and family, and to justify the investment made in training, education and sacrifice. Aviation should pay far more and offer greater stability for what it takes to get there and to stay there.
Skyhigh
Well that is something we ALL can agree with, and perhaps that explains why you and I do not work in aviation at the moment. But my career in IT will not fund a family or retirement either. It does fund the single life - slightly. I still bet a majority of airline pilots make more money than I do in my 'professional' 9-5.
05-30-2010, 08:49 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Married? Yes, said so and you ignore over and
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Are any of you guys married? I have placed my life on display here for all to see. I bet that most of you have circumstances that if honestly revealed would make for interesting conversation and would explain a lot about the attitudes you have. Divorced maybe? Single and never been married perhaps? Broke? Kids will not speak to you anymore and call another man daddy.
It seems to me that some pilots who have given it all and have few friends, family or wealth are placed into a position of ardently defending aviation over facing the harsh reality that they blew it on an irrational obsession. They are married to the job and do not want to acknowledge even to themselves what they had to give in trade for the left seat.
Somewhere along the line I began to realize the growing opportunity cost of my career. A job should not be so hard or demand so much. At some point I had to choose life over my dream. It should not have to be that way. I thought I was buying into a profession to build my life upon. Instead I entered into a career that demands the extermination of everything else I held dear in order to keep climbing the ladder.
I spent 20 years and my best efforts in the pursuit. It is my life's work. I am understandably upset and disappointed by my chosen career. Others need to know what they are getting into.
Skyhigh
It seems to me that some pilots who have given it all and have few friends, family or wealth are placed into a position of ardently defending aviation over facing the harsh reality that they blew it on an irrational obsession. They are married to the job and do not want to acknowledge even to themselves what they had to give in trade for the left seat.
Somewhere along the line I began to realize the growing opportunity cost of my career. A job should not be so hard or demand so much. At some point I had to choose life over my dream. It should not have to be that way. I thought I was buying into a profession to build my life upon. Instead I entered into a career that demands the extermination of everything else I held dear in order to keep climbing the ladder.
I spent 20 years and my best efforts in the pursuit. It is my life's work. I am understandably upset and disappointed by my chosen career. Others need to know what they are getting into.
Skyhigh
My teens call me 'Dad'.
Not a trust fund baby.
One kid of a large family with no money other than my folks made me think we were doing fine. Average middle class, roof over head, beans and rice, etc. paid my way through college working and took out loans that I repaid at in just over 30 months because I disliked the debt.
Paid for my PPL as a teenager by working at a grocery store, stuffing papers, and working at Burger King.
Tough? Yep, just like the businessman neighbor for a coloring food additive company that is on the road more days than me every month. Gratifying? Yes, earning a living at what I want to do.
Share the experience with my kids by being with them and enjoying travels with them, kicking back and sharing life. They get a Mom and dad that gets to spend time at school recitals, etc. I am one of the few dads that makes these events. Do I miss some? Yes, just like the ones the other dad's missed that I attended.
Do what one must. I wasn't cut out to be a railroad guy like my brother, but he seems to make it work. I do too. If flying hadn;'t worked out for me, and I certainly realize timing is involved, would have pressed on to something else as so many of my friends have done and enjoyed life and encouraged folks in whatever dreams they desire. It is America afterall, opportunity is the only guarantee. Like I said Skyhigh, your conversation is muted by your bitterness and regret. Change it and bet you could talk more folks outta flying commercial airplanes <g>
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