Senate panel votes to weaken Flight 3407 safe
07-04-2017, 06:44 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,504
Originally Posted by Ed Force One
It's been focused on plenty. His name was dragged through plenty of mud. Chances are you remember this CA's name, and if you do, then it was "focused on." Good Ole Boy Captain Fantastic Sully was on TV leading the charge against low time regional pilots, somehow believing that he himself was born with 10,000 hours.
Easy for someone senior to say. That doesn't remove the trip however, just pushes it to someone junior. Some people like red-eyes, some don't, but I don't know how anyone can function on this kind of trip. But obviously it's getting done if B6 is still scheduling them.
We don't have these at NK, at least not in my base. We do have something similar though, where we fly a redeye one night, followed by a 6AM departure the next day. Absolutely brutal. I too believe in "When it causes a fatigue problem, only then will it get fixed." Unfortunately for the cause, I simply use my seniority to bid around them. It's up to others to call in fatigued. (At least until I upgrade. Then I'll probably get loads of them.)
Easy for someone senior to say. That doesn't remove the trip however, just pushes it to someone junior. Some people like red-eyes, some don't, but I don't know how anyone can function on this kind of trip. But obviously it's getting done if B6 is still scheduling them.
We don't have these at NK, at least not in my base. We do have something similar though, where we fly a redeye one night, followed by a 6AM departure the next day. Absolutely brutal. I too believe in "When it causes a fatigue problem, only then will it get fixed." Unfortunately for the cause, I simply use my seniority to bid around them. It's up to others to call in fatigued. (At least until I upgrade. Then I'll probably get loads of them.)
07-04-2017, 12:15 PM
#35
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,661
Originally Posted by at6d
I get asked about this from non-aviation folks all the time and it drives me nuts.
The Colgan accident was poor airmanship and was ridiculously preventable. Watch the NTSB animation.
The answer is that the captain failed pretty much every checkride he ever had. Why doesn't anybody focus on that part?
I'm all in favor of training standards and aerobatic training...but really--at some point we have to draw the line when it comes to the left and right seats.
I don't know...maybe if you failed your Private, Instrument, Commercial and ATP ratings you need to do something else.
The Colgan accident was poor airmanship and was ridiculously preventable. Watch the NTSB animation.
The answer is that the captain failed pretty much every checkride he ever had. Why doesn't anybody focus on that part?
I'm all in favor of training standards and aerobatic training...but really--at some point we have to draw the line when it comes to the left and right seats.
I don't know...maybe if you failed your Private, Instrument, Commercial and ATP ratings you need to do something else.
07-04-2017, 12:24 PM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
The CA put the power at idol and didn't touch it until the stall. The ice probably didn't help but it certainly wasn't the cause.
07-04-2017, 02:00 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by Packrat
What you all seem to be forgetting is the High Priority training issue that cycle was tailplane icing. Take a look at the NASA video on YouTube about tailplane icing and see what the recovery is.
I've had it in a CV-580. If the two Colgan pilots misidentified the stall as tailplane icing then they applied the wrong corrective actions. Since they're both dead, there's no way to know what they were thinking, but in tailplane icing the first action is to bring the flaps up.
I've had it in a CV-580. If the two Colgan pilots misidentified the stall as tailplane icing then they applied the wrong corrective actions. Since they're both dead, there's no way to know what they were thinking, but in tailplane icing the first action is to bring the flaps up.
07-04-2017, 02:15 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 684
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
The NTSB looked into that thoroughly. They concluded the crews (mainly the CAs) actions were nothing of the sort of recognizing they had a tail plane stall, instead, they concluded it was consistent with a startle-effect for the pulling the nose back, and that the FO was most likely un-doing the last thing she did in order to try to fix the problem.
Unless you're a guy with 500 hours and itching to get into the right seat of an RJ, I really don't see the argument against having somewhat experienced pilots flying the kind of metal the regional airlines are operating right now.
07-04-2017, 05:58 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by tunes
I'd much rather have that than the trips we have where you fly a redeye, followed by day sleep, same evening departure.
07-05-2017, 02:29 AM
#40
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by Regularguy
Another issue with the crash was fatigue and commuting, but you all seem to have forgotten that.
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