Std Deviation

There are pilots in the top 10% of the FO list at my airline and CAs that don't get hotel rooms or crashpads and "sleep" in the lounge before trips. Seems a CA making 200K a year could spring for a hotel in NYC even at $200 a night? I understand the regional pay conundrum. Maybe that "save a buck mentality" carries over to the next career level for some. It's not just fatigue at the regionals.

MasterOfPuppets

The FO had 2300 HRS and 800 hrs in the Q400 and had been at Colgan for over a year. whats more experience do you want?

Das Auto

There's a difference between 2300 hrs and 1 hour repeated 2300 times. She had very little IMC experience. Even admitted to it on the CVR. A strong F.O. can keep an eye on a weak captain and an experienced captain can babysit a new F.O. Put 2 week pilots together, add fatigue to the mix and you have an accident waiting to happen.
I flew with the captain of that flight on several occasions. He was relatively new to the Q400.

Happyflyer

I guess enough to identify a stall, and enough PIC time to challenge a captain who is aggravating it.
The old rule was 250tt, a multi, and 8 sims. You can't possibly think that is enough experience no matter how many got hired in 07 and never crashed. So even if 1,500 is excessive it needed to be changed, personally I'd say 3-500 Multi PIC, but that's arguably more restrictive than 1,500tt.

MasterOfPuppets

So what is the point of the 1500 HR rule if it is 1hr repeated 1500 times?

The problem is training and the airlines desire/need to keep their pilot ranks full, not the pilot. If a pilot is weak they should be let go. If the pilot needs additional training it should be provided. Airlines, in order to save money, continually try to push pilots through that don't belong. With very little oversight by the FAA. The type rating rule doesn't make anybody safer. I get the same oral as a Captain and do everything the captain does on a check ride except taxi the aircraft. That failure to taxi is the only thing that prevented me from having a type rating when I was at the regionals. The only reason I was not taught how to taxi was because it required additional instruction time and sim time to get me signed off and that translates into $$.

It doesn't matter how many hours a person has or if they have an ATP or a type rating, some people just don't belong in airplanes. Unfortunately unions and short staffing and money, keep the weak among us.

MasterOfPuppets

So how do you feel about Spirits 4 sims then off to fly an airbus?

Happyflyer

I feel they don't put that right after 250tt and a multi.

Happyflyer

This is exactly right, but they do want a new hire to have ~2 years of full time flying experience under their belt before being allowed to operate an airliner flying the public. This is not an unreasonable requirement, it is just stated as requiring you to have an ATP and 1,500 hours. Obviously, simply requireing 2 years of seasoned flying experance would have its own problems.

vilcas

When you look at new pilots in the airline training pipeline you will find low timers with excellent skills who make excellent pilots and vice versa. The key here, if you really want safety, is better training. Hire a low time pilot with a commercial multi give them more sims and lots of OE. This way you know what you are getting. If the normal course is 8 sims and 35 hours of OE you might triple that for a person with less than 500 hours and double it for a persona with 1000 hours. This allows the airlines to get the pilots they need and insure they get quality training. From personal experience hours doesn't tell the full story but more experience is always helpful. The current rules would not stop someone from buying a Cessna 172 and flying it around for the fun of it and build time.

MasterOfPuppets

^^^^This, more training is needed not more hours.