ShyGuy

There's no evidence she was a "weak" pilot. She raised the flaps in the heat of the moment, but nothing to suggest a weak pilot in terms of history of busts, failures, etc.

Big E 757

Most of what you said, I agree with 100%. The only thing I disagree with is your suggestion that the union is somehow to blame.

Even at the majors, since 9/11, training has been squeezed into the smallest possible footprint. At an operation like Colgan, a FFD type operation, their revenue is somewhat set in stone by their route network. The only way they make more money, YOY, is to reduce costs. If you've spent money training some guy and he is marginal but grinds his way through training, you're not going to just fire him. You're going to help him get through because getting rid of him at that point is going to cost more. And that is what happens. If you can charm your way through the interview, they've got too much invested in you to just broom you out the door when your upgrade presents a challenge.

I haven't heard anything about their union protecting his job, so forgive me if that actually happened. I do know he had a history of struggling through training on multiple occasions and was on his 3rd airline??? I don't think the 1500 hour rule is an unfair thing. If you want to be an airline pilot, I think you should be a licensed airline pilot. Read "Airline Transport Pilot rated".

If they can get the FAA to change the requirements for that, then you can get a job with less hours.

EDIT: after posting this, I read a few posts after the one I quoted above and agree with that too. The problem and solution isn't the number 1500, the problem is the airline industry's unwillingness to train to proficiency. The solution IS to have a more flexible course that could make sure someone was ready for his or her role as a crew member, no matter the cost or disruption to the training pipeline.

Das Auto

Out of respect for the people that lost their lives I'm not going to further comment on the pilots that made those critical decisions that day.

However, you can study the art of riding a bicycle for months, but you'll still fall off the first time you get on.
Of course training is important but there's no substitute for experience.

There's also a difference between quantity and quality of flight hours. Give me an ex freight dog with 1,000 hours avoiding mountains and thunderstorms at night with no autopilot over someone with 2,000 hours bashing the pattern in Southern California.

ShyGuy

I didn't mean to imply any of that, I just said there's no evidence she was a "weak" pilot. Plenty of regional pilots have gone through non-freight dog lifestyles with just 1,000 hrs in the pattern and flew so safely. After about 500 hrs in your first 121 gig, it's usually enough to learn the ropes. That should be beyond the 'reading the the art of bicycle riding' by that point. Of course everyone is different. But one can't really call her 'weak' and I think the NTSB conclusion on her was fairly accurate.

Nevjets

Forcing pilots to accumulate enough hours for an ATP is more about getting the opportunity to learn ADM and risk management. You don't want a pilot who becomes a captain at a 121 airline who has 3000 hours yet only 100 of them has been as the decision maker. That's why the ATP rule should stay.

MasterOfPuppets

As an FO I make lots of decisions and voice my opinion on what we should do. Obviously I don't always make the best decision, and the CA always has the final say, but even when I make a bad decision I learn from the CAs correct decision.

A pilots mentality plays a major role in whether or not they are ready to be CA. Some FOs check out and are just along for the ride and others stay engaged. You can have 1000's of hours in the right seat and be a horrible CA or you can step into the CA seat after 1000 hours 121 and be great.

The problem with this discussion and congress is they are trying to regulate a human condition that cannot be regulated. Training can weed all of this out IF the airlines allow us too. $$$$

brianb

Maybe more experience would have helped in her "decision" to raise the flaps.

No Land 3

Getting rid of the 1500 hour rule will take at least 1 million dollars away from our potential lifetime earnings in this industry. So to the people who are bitter about getting 1500 hours first, go screw yourself.

MasterOfPuppets

I'm not sure I follow your comment.....care to explain?

C130driver

Agreed, just my opinion but I'm not going to go seeking a potentially million dollar career without fulfilling the pre-requisits (degree) or qualifications (hours) first. That's like stating I don't need residency to be a doctor and can just learn on the job.