SSSS
09-16-2019 | 06:58 PM
#41
Banned
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 384
Likes: 1
Will this affect a jumpseater, no. Will this affect a non-Rev or DH, you betcha!
09-17-2019 | 04:38 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
Are you just pulling this out of your a$$? Got a source on that? I walk off one plane I operated to another plane to DH all the time. Agent prints the boarding pass. Your saying that I wasn’t eligible to use KCM three legs ago?
09-17-2019 | 04:48 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
Easy, haus. I think he’s saying if you get SSSS you can’t leave the secured area and re-enter via KCM. The whole point of that code is you must be searched.
GP
09-17-2019 | 07:31 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 12
09-17-2019 | 07:36 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
I was under the impression it can show up on jumpseat passes/printed cards, too. All the more reason to check-in as early as possible.
GP
09-17-2019 | 07:50 AM
#46
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 147
In airports, you're a subject not a citizen. Remember this, shut up, get in line. You're being well paid to give up your rights so suck it up.
09-17-2019 | 08:04 AM
#47
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 147
And before anyone gets bent, case law supports the concept that a traveler in some situations has voluntarily relinquished certain rights.
4th amendment rights - voluntarily waived the instant you set foot on airport property.
5th amendment right to liberty (meaning in this case the right to travel freely) - voluntarily waived as well.
Lots of interpretations, here is a good one outlining where the basic rights go when you enter into a contract that waives them.
https://famguardian.org/Subjects/Fre...htToTravel.htm
One applicable section (regarding highway travel but relevant to air travel as well):
It means that the govt can come up with a requirement for travel (issuance of real ID, pilots license, etc) and by accepting the terms of such license you waive certain rights.
4th amendment rights - voluntarily waived the instant you set foot on airport property.
5th amendment right to liberty (meaning in this case the right to travel freely) - voluntarily waived as well.
Lots of interpretations, here is a good one outlining where the basic rights go when you enter into a contract that waives them.
https://famguardian.org/Subjects/Fre...htToTravel.htm
One applicable section (regarding highway travel but relevant to air travel as well):
Here is what the courts have said about this:
"...For while a citizen has the right to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, that right does not extend to the use of the highways...as a place for private gain. For the latter purpose, no person has a vested right to use the highways of this state, but it is a privilege...which the (state) may grant or withhold at its discretion..."
[State v. Johnson, 75 Mont. 240, 243 P. 1073 (1926)]
There are many court cases that confirm and point out the difference between the right of the citizen to travel and a government privilege and there are numerous other court decisions that spell out the jurisdiction issue in these two distinctly different activities. However, because of space restrictions, we will leave it to officers to research it further for themselves.
(2) The second group of citizens that is legally under the jurisdiction of the state are those citizens who have voluntarily and knowingly waived their right to travel unregulated and unrestricted by requesting placement under such jurisdiction through the acquisition of a state driver's license, vehicle registration, mandatory insurance, etc. (In other words, by contract.)
We should remember what makes this legal and not a violation of the common law right to travel is that they knowingly volunteer by contract to waive their rights. If they were forced, coerced or unknowingly placed under the state's powers, the courts have said it is a clear violation of their rights.
"...For while a citizen has the right to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, that right does not extend to the use of the highways...as a place for private gain. For the latter purpose, no person has a vested right to use the highways of this state, but it is a privilege...which the (state) may grant or withhold at its discretion..."
[State v. Johnson, 75 Mont. 240, 243 P. 1073 (1926)]
There are many court cases that confirm and point out the difference between the right of the citizen to travel and a government privilege and there are numerous other court decisions that spell out the jurisdiction issue in these two distinctly different activities. However, because of space restrictions, we will leave it to officers to research it further for themselves.
(2) The second group of citizens that is legally under the jurisdiction of the state are those citizens who have voluntarily and knowingly waived their right to travel unregulated and unrestricted by requesting placement under such jurisdiction through the acquisition of a state driver's license, vehicle registration, mandatory insurance, etc. (In other words, by contract.)
We should remember what makes this legal and not a violation of the common law right to travel is that they knowingly volunteer by contract to waive their rights. If they were forced, coerced or unknowingly placed under the state's powers, the courts have said it is a clear violation of their rights.
09-17-2019 | 08:05 AM
#48
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 516
Likes: 86
It's an absolutely BS policy, and if we all just 'shut up and got in line' when they changed the rule a few weeks back about no more using KCM in plain clothes, we wouldn't have gotten that privilege back so quickly.
The idea that a crew member who just finished flying/operating an aircraft all day and ends with a DH or even a JS home has to exit security and be rescreened is absolutely asinine.
09-17-2019 | 09:05 AM
#49
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 10
yeah, no thanks. You don't have to raise your voice or act like a tough guy with the agent, but 'shut up, get in line' is not something many of us are just going to put up with.
It's an absolutely BS policy, and if we all just 'shut up and got in line' when they changed the rule a few weeks back about no more using KCM in plain clothes, we wouldn't have gotten that privilege back so quickly.
The idea that a crew member who just finished flying/operating an aircraft all day and ends with a DH or even a JS home has to exit security and be rescreened is absolutely asinine.
It's an absolutely BS policy, and if we all just 'shut up and got in line' when they changed the rule a few weeks back about no more using KCM in plain clothes, we wouldn't have gotten that privilege back so quickly.
The idea that a crew member who just finished flying/operating an aircraft all day and ends with a DH or even a JS home has to exit security and be rescreened is absolutely asinine.
09-17-2019 | 10:46 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
Oh no. That's a good way to end up in detention, jail, or at the very least end up with KCM privileges revoked. All it takes is a single TSA employee to say that you obstructed them in doing their job (merely asking for a supervisor can trigger this claim) and you're effed.
In airports, you're a subject not a citizen. Remember this, shut up, get in line. You're being well paid to give up your rights so suck it up.
In airports, you're a subject not a citizen. Remember this, shut up, get in line. You're being well paid to give up your rights so suck it up.
