ULCC or American?
03-12-2020, 10:19 AM
#132
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
Originally Posted by Al Czervik
hopefully all will be alright for all. Nobody saw this one coming.
03-12-2020, 10:28 AM
#133
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Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by Andy
Yep. Let's hope no one fails; nothing's worse than a failing airline which slashes prices and creates huge losses across the entire industry.
03-12-2020, 10:41 AM
#134
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Airplanes
Posts: 1,378
I read an article today that stated as a percentage of cash on hand versus operating expenses Spirit has 22% on hand, Southwest was 11%, and AA and DAL were 6-8%. Of all the airlines to run on cash on hand the longest NK is probably best positioned. I'll try to find the article.
03-12-2020, 10:50 AM
#135
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Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,256
Big-3 has the Europe, Asia "exposure" and is taking the big hit from lack of business/corporate travelers, due to various bans, etc.
Spirit / Frontier less so. I wonder about Sun Country, etc. type carriers. Airlines with MAX in the fleet such as SWA may suffer a "double whammy" if the MAX does not come back soon.
Lets wish EVERYONE good luck and hope we pull thru this.
Spirit / Frontier less so. I wonder about Sun Country, etc. type carriers. Airlines with MAX in the fleet such as SWA may suffer a "double whammy" if the MAX does not come back soon.
Lets wish EVERYONE good luck and hope we pull thru this.
03-12-2020, 10:55 AM
#136
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Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 508
ULCC or American?
Originally Posted by senecacaptain
Big-3 has the Europe, Asia "exposure" and is taking the big hit from lack of business/corporate travelers, due to various bans, etc.
Spirit / Frontier less so. I wonder about Sun Country, etc. type carriers. Airlines with MAX in the fleet such as SWA may suffer a "double whammy" if the MAX does not come back soon.
Lets wish EVERYONE good luck and hope we pull thru this.
Spirit / Frontier less so. I wonder about Sun Country, etc. type carriers. Airlines with MAX in the fleet such as SWA may suffer a "double whammy" if the MAX does not come back soon.
Lets wish EVERYONE good luck and hope we pull thru this.
Yet, Spirit is down 30% today while the others are around 10-15%.. Agreed, hopefully we all come out of this ok.
The Max being grounded for SWA right now actually helps as it's less capacity to fill.
03-12-2020, 11:03 AM
#137
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Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by Burton78
Yet Spirit is down 30% today while the others are around 10-15%.. Agreed, hopefully we all come out of this ok.
The Max being grounded for SWA right now actually helps as it's less capacity to fill.
The Max being grounded for SWA right now actually helps as it's less capacity to fill.
UAL (down 20% by the way) has 247M shares outstanding.
Exits out of airline stocks "hurt" the share prices of the smaller companies more than the bigger companies, all things being equal.
On the flip side, Spirit/etc do not have 25,000 employees on payroll, or 50 787's that are sitting around. Flying half full Airbus's FLL to San Juan is different than empty 777s to China.
03-12-2020, 11:08 AM
#138
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Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 508
Originally Posted by senecacaptain
Spirit has 68M shares outstanding. It is basically a micro-cap/small-cap stock.
UAL (down 20% by the way) has 247M shares outstanding.
Exits out of airline stocks "hurt" the share prices of the smaller companies more than the bigger companies, all things being equal.
On the flip side, Spirit/etc do not have 25,000 employees on payroll, or 50 787's that are sitting around. Flying half full Airbus's FLL to San Juan is different than empty 777s to China.
UAL (down 20% by the way) has 247M shares outstanding.
Exits out of airline stocks "hurt" the share prices of the smaller companies more than the bigger companies, all things being equal.
On the flip side, Spirit/etc do not have 25,000 employees on payroll, or 50 787's that are sitting around. Flying half full Airbus's FLL to San Juan is different than empty 777s to China.
I won't pretend to be an economist as I fly planes for a living. Truth of the matter is, we are are all hurting right now regardless of our paint scheme.
03-12-2020, 11:11 AM
#140
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Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,000
Originally Posted by sobo
Depending on the rebound, this seems like a prime time for the legacy airlines to snuff out competition. Both ULCCs will tell you they are designed to compete in tough economic conditions, but I don’t think we’ve seen a situation where demand falls AND the price of fuel falls. CASM is going to drop like a rock at the legacy airlines, while having a war chest of cash and the ability to park paid off aircraft. You combine that with the retirements effectively taking care of workforce reduction, the ULCC’s may actually be in trouble.
Being at an ULCC, I am a little more than alarmed at this point.
Being at an ULCC, I am a little more than alarmed at this point.
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