at6d

The scope clause at WN alone would be an issue.

Why not a single national carrier then?

fcoolaiddrinker

I’m not even sure there’s a problem? No mainline pilots on the street, no concessions to speak of, and hiring everywhere. Pre covid commuters were starting 50ishk first year. Commuters look to be hiring as well. All things considered this looks like sunshine and rainbows compared to the last two downturns.

reandld

I'll take it a step further: how about one national carrier? Make commercial aviation a mix of pre-deregulation and have it run like a large government utility company. We become federal employees and get pensions back.

Still think we should work for ALPA and not for the individual airlines though.

fcoolaiddrinker

That would be a bad idea IMO. For many reasons but I’ll throw out a few. The free market, zero incentive for efficiency. Ticket Prices would go way up. Now I understand thier super low historically speaking but who sets the prices? Do you want to let congress do that? I don’t.

reandld

I don't think people have much of a choice when it comes to traveling. Most families aren't going to take a Greyhound from NYC to LA on a regular basis. And why would the prices go up at all?

trip

Great idea, like the old Aeroflot during the Soviet Union then?

GogglesPisano

Let’s have one national cellphone provider, too. And one electric utility. And one grocery store chain.

These are all such great ideas. They’ve worked everywhere they’ve been tried.

For the record, US airline pilots are the most highly compensated in the world. We have by far the best control over our schedules and quality of life. Don’t believe me, go to PPrune or chat up an Emirates crew in the hotel.

Appreciate what we have and recognize the reasons we have it.

sky jet

As has been stated before, this has been re- hashed every two to three years since deregulation in 1978. How do I know, I've been around almost that long. That ship sailed in the 1920's when almost all pilots flew for airlines whose major income came from the government via mail contracts. Since then the advent of the seniority system and pay per the size of equipment have made pilots invested in the carrier they initially hire into.

I will give you just one of many examples of why it will never work.
Airline A is 60 years old and has a mix of narrow and wide bodies and a fleet size of 500.
Airline B is 75 years old and flies a similar fleet mix and size.

Airline B gets a new CEO, CFO and board and they go into crazy international expansion.
Airline A keeps the course that has made them mostly profitable for 60 years.

Airline B ends up bankrupt and eventually shuts down.
Airline B's senior pilots exercise their national seniority and bump 2/3rds of airline A's pilots out of their jobs. Airline A's pilots then bounce several thousand junior pilots out of their jobs at other majors or regionals. All of those pilots are now bumped or unemployed even though their respective airlines are healthy and profitable.

Oh, but you say, they wouldn't be allowed to bump, just take the next available job from the union. If we would have had this system in 2008 when several airlines went out of business over the course of a few months many of you would have never entered or been able to enter the profession until several thousand unemployed union members got jobs first. Not the pay to fly regional job. Not the low paying regional job. Not at the new start up. Not at the expanding regional or fast growing ULCC. Nothing. Nothing in a cockpit until every last senior Union pilot had been placed back in a flying job.

By the way, COVID? No senior pilot (or at least very, very few) would have taken the early outs that saved so many jobs recently. They would have known that no matter what happened to their carrier they were safe with some airline until 65.

If you've been in the industry less than 10-15 years you wouldn't be in it at all if we had this system. See the problem?

Grumpyaviator

Yeah, like Amtrak and the Post Office. I’m in.

Grumpyaviator

What if you’re at a good (your dream) airline and you’re displaced to the street by senior pilots at a crumby carrier that’s shrinking the staff due to mismanagement?