ULCC captain to Legacy?
12-21-2021, 09:44 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,395
Originally Posted by dera
That's up there with one of the best "yes, it was worth waking up this morning" stories. Awesome!
How does a day trip pay 20 hours, what are the soft pay rules that bulk up the credit like that?
How does a day trip pay 20 hours, what are the soft pay rules that bulk up the credit like that?
12-22-2021, 07:43 AM
#82
Last To Know First To Go
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 605
Originally Posted by TOGALOCK
I know, right!? Delta Air Lines A320 captains top out at $274/hour. F9 and NK pilots only top out at $270/hour. How do we survive!? My wife cries every time she looks in our bank account and I was finally able to afford the glue that I needed to put the soles back on my kid’s worn shoes.
12-22-2021, 11:29 AM
#83
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by TOGALOCK
It’s a very tough choice to have and I’m beginning to have the wheels turn with a similar question despite how much I do love where I’m at. I’m paying particular attention to this thread since I’m exactly the same as the OP in company, seat and age. There is only one airline I would leave for and I’m trying to have my decision made before I even re-up my app with them. I would rather decide what my choice would be if offered a job before even applying rather than be in the OP’s position and have to lay awake at night wondering what I’m going to do.
Personally, I’ve found the best people to talk to are the people that have made the U/LCC to legacy switch after having some seniority at the ULCC (not a newbie on probation who left for a legacy). Even better if you ask someone who left the left seat of a ULCC, but good luck finding them. That alone is telling. I have found that getting factual advice from current legacy pilots tends to be difficult - the most seasoned gray haired captains are so far removed from the industry that they wonder why anyone would want to stay at a “start-up” like Frontier, Spirit, or JetBlue (I have actually been asked that before), and the younger FOs have usually come straight from the regionals and have very little to no experience or knowledge of the money and QOL that can be had at a modern ULCC. The most unbiased info I’ve gotten so far have been from the mid-range seniority legacy captains - Young enough to not be completely removed from how the industry and airlines have evolved, but old enough to have had their teeth kicked in a few times by the industry. They’ve also lost their cheerleading pom poms years ago, so they generally tend to not speak from a position of ego. The majority of that particular group that I have spoke to tell me I’d be a fool to leave the left seat of an Airbus making the money I am making and having the seniority movement that I have ahead.
In the end, I seem to be trying to find reasons to tell myself TO make the move rather than to NOT make the move, so I think my decision is probably staring me in the face. I laughed when I read the last line of RJSAviator’s post because that’s exactly how I feel. It feels like I’ve already won big at the blackjack table and now I want to take whatever money I had left for gambling, along with all my winnings, and plop it all down on the roulette table hoping my bet on black pays off. It’s one thing when it only hurts you if it doesn’t work out. It’s another when it adversely effects and hurts my family of five. Being a degenerate gambler is one thing. When you still do it knowing it could seriously hurt the people you love it just makes you a dirtbag.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
Personally, I’ve found the best people to talk to are the people that have made the U/LCC to legacy switch after having some seniority at the ULCC (not a newbie on probation who left for a legacy). Even better if you ask someone who left the left seat of a ULCC, but good luck finding them. That alone is telling. I have found that getting factual advice from current legacy pilots tends to be difficult - the most seasoned gray haired captains are so far removed from the industry that they wonder why anyone would want to stay at a “start-up” like Frontier, Spirit, or JetBlue (I have actually been asked that before), and the younger FOs have usually come straight from the regionals and have very little to no experience or knowledge of the money and QOL that can be had at a modern ULCC. The most unbiased info I’ve gotten so far have been from the mid-range seniority legacy captains - Young enough to not be completely removed from how the industry and airlines have evolved, but old enough to have had their teeth kicked in a few times by the industry. They’ve also lost their cheerleading pom poms years ago, so they generally tend to not speak from a position of ego. The majority of that particular group that I have spoke to tell me I’d be a fool to leave the left seat of an Airbus making the money I am making and having the seniority movement that I have ahead.
In the end, I seem to be trying to find reasons to tell myself TO make the move rather than to NOT make the move, so I think my decision is probably staring me in the face. I laughed when I read the last line of RJSAviator’s post because that’s exactly how I feel. It feels like I’ve already won big at the blackjack table and now I want to take whatever money I had left for gambling, along with all my winnings, and plop it all down on the roulette table hoping my bet on black pays off. It’s one thing when it only hurts you if it doesn’t work out. It’s another when it adversely effects and hurts my family of five. Being a degenerate gambler is one thing. When you still do it knowing it could seriously hurt the people you love it just makes you a dirtbag.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
I know of a few people who fit the bill of who you’d like to speak to. LCC CA’s and non-probie FO’s who’ve left to legacies. None of us were in our 20’s. It wasn’t an easy choice for any of us. We all came from what we considered great airlines. There were some rocky moments in that first year when we had the “what have I done?” moments, but a few years on, and those have passed. The QOL is the same, or better. The opportunities to try different kinds of flying are there. Those doesn’t really exist at a LCC, because of single fleet types. The pay is better as well- remember, it’s not all about hourly rates. You can see from the 2021 salary thread that it’s very possible to make LCC CA pay as a NB legacy FO. You’d also get better benefits overall- not just flight benefits.
If you opt to stay at your LCC, you’ll obviously do very well financially, but the with the movement happening at the legacy carriers right now, if you jump ship, you’ll be right back to that place in the RHS within a few years, then you’ll get the chance to upgrade…
12-22-2021, 05:09 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 843
Originally Posted by Aero1900
At Frontier we have a Premium Add Folder. When crew scheduling needs something covered they put the trip into the pot. We can get text message alerts for it. The company can add as much credit as they want to it. Anything in the pot pays 150% of the credit that appears on the trip. Some trips get picked up with little soft credit added and other times they really throw money at the trips. And any credit hours above 82 pay an extra 25%.
Delta’s is 200% for premium
If you’re rsv it’s even better as they pay it 100% over guarantee and they drop your next days of rsv. You cash easily do 150hrs and fly less than a block holder.
12-22-2021, 07:01 PM
#85
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,198
Originally Posted by Farmlover
not a bad system.
Delta’s is 200% for premium
If you’re rsv it’s even better as they pay it 100% over guarantee and they drop your next days of rsv. You cash easily do 150hrs and fly less than a block holder.
Delta’s is 200% for premium
If you’re rsv it’s even better as they pay it 100% over guarantee and they drop your next days of rsv. You cash easily do 150hrs and fly less than a block holder.
12-23-2021, 08:22 AM
#88
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by MtoL
I signed up because I remember the stress your decision caused me.
I know of a few people who fit the bill of who you’d like to speak to. LCC CA’s and non-probie FO’s who’ve left to legacies. None of us were in our 20’s. It wasn’t an easy choice for any of us. We all came from what we considered great airlines. There were some rocky moments in that first year when we had the “what have I done?” moments, but a few years on, and those have passed. The QOL is the same, or better. The opportunities to try different kinds of flying are there. Those doesn’t really exist at a LCC, because of single fleet types. The pay is better as well- remember, it’s not all about hourly rates. You can see from the 2021 salary thread that it’s very possible to make LCC CA pay as a NB legacy FO. You’d also get better benefits overall- not just flight benefits.
If you opt to stay at your LCC, you’ll obviously do very well financially, but the with the movement happening at the legacy carriers right now, if you jump ship, you’ll be right back to that place in the RHS within a few years, then you’ll get the chance to upgrade…
I know of a few people who fit the bill of who you’d like to speak to. LCC CA’s and non-probie FO’s who’ve left to legacies. None of us were in our 20’s. It wasn’t an easy choice for any of us. We all came from what we considered great airlines. There were some rocky moments in that first year when we had the “what have I done?” moments, but a few years on, and those have passed. The QOL is the same, or better. The opportunities to try different kinds of flying are there. Those doesn’t really exist at a LCC, because of single fleet types. The pay is better as well- remember, it’s not all about hourly rates. You can see from the 2021 salary thread that it’s very possible to make LCC CA pay as a NB legacy FO. You’d also get better benefits overall- not just flight benefits.
If you opt to stay at your LCC, you’ll obviously do very well financially, but the with the movement happening at the legacy carriers right now, if you jump ship, you’ll be right back to that place in the RHS within a few years, then you’ll get the chance to upgrade…
12-23-2021, 08:40 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
Originally Posted by 250tothemarker
Just to be clear, you will not make it back to the same place within 'just a few years.' Lineholding captain takes quite a few years at a legacy, whereas you can be a senior lineholding captain at Frontier in about 6 years (on the east coast).
This thread reminds me of conversations I had half a decade ago with a few RJ CAs. They didn't want to make the leap because seniority was good.
I explained that the legacies would be poaching the bottom of their seniority lists which would result in the entire seniority list shrinking at regionals and since there aren't many retirements at regionals, they'd find their seniority going backward as the seniority list shrunk. The same is now going to start happening at ULCCs. Legacies are going to poach pilots from ULCCs and the ULCCs are going to find themselves unable to hire pilots quickly enough to keep their seniority lists from shrinking. With very few retirements at ULCCs, one's seniority will start going backward. Meanwhile, there are a ton of retirements at the legacies and they'll be hiring as many qualified pilots as they can find for at least the next decade.
It will be interesting to revisit this thread in a few years.
12-23-2021, 08:47 AM
#90
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,198
Originally Posted by 250tothemarker
Just to be clear, you will not make it back to the same place within 'just a few years.' Lineholding captain takes quite a few years at a legacy, whereas you can be a senior lineholding captain at Frontier in about 6 years (on the east coast).
In the last 6 months everyone's usual assumptions have been blatantly wrong when it comes to movement and progression. I'm convinced nobody knows anything about what kinds of things could happen in the near future regarding movement. Already, DFW to new hires at AA... all bases available to new hires at UAL with well over 100 unfilled CA slots pre delivery of 200 737s lol.
Not saying anything is guaranteed, but I wouldn't use the upgrade times of 2013-2019 to forecast 2021-2027. Of course anything can happen, it's a risk.
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