ULCC captain to Legacy?
12-21-2021, 12:34 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: Happy
Posts: 683
She would be justified to leave you if he is on the MD. Beautiful plane 
.
But thats my point too. I don’t want to fly so I bid a reserve line where I know I’ll be used the least. Swap my days based on how much trips there are for those days in open time minimizing the chance of being used. So far this month .. 4 block 75 credit. No doubt someone will magically get sick over xmas but our qol / work rules are pretty good. And as soon as you upgrade scheduling starts calling you sir and captain so there is that
. But thats my point too. I don’t want to fly so I bid a reserve line where I know I’ll be used the least. Swap my days based on how much trips there are for those days in open time minimizing the chance of being used. So far this month .. 4 block 75 credit. No doubt someone will magically get sick over xmas but our qol / work rules are pretty good. And as soon as you upgrade scheduling starts calling you sir and captain so there is that
12-21-2021, 01:46 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by 303flyboy
Interesting read.
I am in the exact same position as my two friends here. Left seat 320 mid 30s. At Frontier you’ll make about 250k if you work your line and go home not trying. 300/400+ if you pick up like a flica nuttjob. Year 12 CA I believe is 270/hr first 82 hours. 337.50/hr after that (credit not block ). Plus 15% DC.
Do I think there is a good chance it will work out for you when leaving ? Yes.. But it will be years and years of not making this ^ before catching up. Is it worth the crew meal and a nicer product ? Maybe.
Also, Andy our planes where full as long as states where not shutdown at a price level that worked for us during the beginning of the pandemic. Not sore sure that was the same for the big 3.
Like someone else said at this level I won’t leave anymore. Too big of a gamble. Only pilots think the grass is greener. Especially with 50% of the list below me and based on firm orders alone will be 20% in the next few years.
FO retention will be an issue. Especially younger ones in their first two years.. I don’t think we have an issue till the company raises first year pay to 98% of second year pay which btw puts the rest of us in the industry in a great bargaining position ..
At the end of the day do what feels right for you and your family and don’t look back. We have it unbelievable good right now (all majors / legacies / cargo etc) let’s hope it stays that way.
Cheers !
I am in the exact same position as my two friends here. Left seat 320 mid 30s. At Frontier you’ll make about 250k if you work your line and go home not trying. 300/400+ if you pick up like a flica nuttjob. Year 12 CA I believe is 270/hr first 82 hours. 337.50/hr after that (credit not block ). Plus 15% DC.
Do I think there is a good chance it will work out for you when leaving ? Yes.. But it will be years and years of not making this ^ before catching up. Is it worth the crew meal and a nicer product ? Maybe.
Also, Andy our planes where full as long as states where not shutdown at a price level that worked for us during the beginning of the pandemic. Not sore sure that was the same for the big 3.
Like someone else said at this level I won’t leave anymore. Too big of a gamble. Only pilots think the grass is greener. Especially with 50% of the list below me and based on firm orders alone will be 20% in the next few years.
FO retention will be an issue. Especially younger ones in their first two years.. I don’t think we have an issue till the company raises first year pay to 98% of second year pay which btw puts the rest of us in the industry in a great bargaining position ..
At the end of the day do what feels right for you and your family and don’t look back. We have it unbelievable good right now (all majors / legacies / cargo etc) let’s hope it stays that way.
Cheers !
HOWEVER, I’d leave in a second for any of the big 3 if I wanted to live in one of their domiciles. I do think you’ll have better morale in general at a legacy, better benefits, more options, even things like the non rev benefits are intangible benefits that are really nice to have. I have friends at our age range at all the legacies and cargo carriers so I made my choice with as much data as possible-even got a handle on some bid packets and seniority projections are certain legacies…it ultimately just comes down to living in base for me personally. I think if you live close to DFW, if I were you I’d go to AA and never look back
12-21-2021, 01:51 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: baller, shot caller
Posts: 961
Originally Posted by TOGALOCK
Personally, I’ve found the best people to talk to are the people that have made the U/LCC to legacy switch after having some seniority at the ULCC (not a newbie on probation who left for a legacy). Even better if you ask someone who left the left seat of a ULCC, but good luck finding them. That alone is telling.
Looking at the bigger picture, it is important to realize where we all came from and how we got here. Most of us in our age bracket either joined or attempted to join this industry during the mid to late 2000s in what was arguably the worst downturn in aviation employment history. I don't know about you but I spent my 20s broke as a joke, moving around the country chasing flying jobs and at times even non-flying jobs just to get by. I spent many years being able to fit everything I owned into my car, minus the bed I slept on.
Fast forward to the current day and I'm in what is considered by many to be the prime of life and loving every minute of it. Yes the pandemic sucked for seniority progression but now I am somewhat senior on reserve, driving to work in an area that I enjoy, and spending a lot of time at home while earning over $200k/year.
Leaving all of that for a legacy means crashpad life and in general spending more time away from the nice life that I have built in my ULCC base. It also means probation (again) and a massive pay cut (also again).
All of that is a hard pass for me.
Edit to add: I have zero desire to fly across the pond in a WB. If that is the case for you then go for it.
12-21-2021, 02:55 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 269
I’m at AA. The more I think about it, I wouldn’t make the move. If it would mean commuting then no way. I’m pretty senior in my narrow body bid status. Working 17 days next month plus 3 days on top of that to commute. At top 30% I would need to do redeyes to work less. I’m getting too old for those. If/when I bid the 787 I will lose so much control of my schedule. We have some goofy work rules at AA. I enjoy it but it is a grind. $310,000 this year with little to no trip trades. I’m exhausted so why would I want to work more? If you like where you are then stay.
12-21-2021, 03:30 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,000
Originally Posted by Minepza
F9 Captain looking to go to United or American? I thought frontier was a major. Jeez
If you’re really pondering this then you should trust your spidy sense and leave the animal.
If you’re really pondering this then you should trust your spidy sense and leave the animal.
12-21-2021, 03:56 PM
#68
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,311
Originally Posted by hercretired
F9 pay is comparable and in some regards better than Big-3 Airbus pay. No, F9 does not have the 787
good luck
good luck
How are Airbus F9 rates better than legacies? In what way exactly?
12-21-2021, 04:10 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 627
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
What?
How are Airbus F9 rates better than legacies? In what way exactly?
How are Airbus F9 rates better than legacies? In what way exactly?
12-21-2021, 04:17 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,000
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
What?
How are Airbus F9 rates better than legacies? In what way exactly?
How are Airbus F9 rates better than legacies? In what way exactly?
Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer
Probably the soft pay (125% > 82 hr) if you are willing to work a bit more. Perhaps work rules and more opportunities for premium for the same number of block hours.
The 125% is based on credit, not block hours, so it’s easy to hit and adds up quickly. I cashed out my vacation for 2021 and picked up a turn in December. I will be starting the new year with income for the month of January alone being just shy of $40k, not including the company DC which will be an additional $5500ish to start the year. …And that’s at my humble recent upgrade pay rate.
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