Wow, so after all that training you don't realize that using the manual wheel is at the end of the checklist? If you start the memory items withing 10 seconds you will not be wildly out of trim when doing the last part. It's called flying.

Control column............................................ .....Hold firmly

Autopilot (if engaged).......................................... .Disengage

Autothrottle (if engaged)........................................Di sengage

Control column and thrust levers..........................Control airplane
pitch attitude and airspeed

Main Electric
Stabilizer trim.............................................R educe control
column forces

If the runaway stops after the autopilot is disengaged:

Do not re-engage the autopilot or autothrottle.

----

If the runaway continues after the autopilot is disengaged:

STAB TRIM CUTOUT
switches (both)............................................ ....CUTOUT

If the runaway continues:
Stabilizer
trim wheel........................................Grasp and hold

That’s also a revised procedure that came out after the crashes. I don’t remember what it was before.

Until one has flown overseas, they'll have a difficult time understanding many things about these two crashes. It is a completely different world out there. Everything is based on autopilot. When doing a V1 cut, the very first item you do is turn the autopilot on at 400'. Before doing any checklist or memory items... autopilot first. When doing a visual approach, it requires to be programmed and both pilots will without fail be heads down trying to program it instead of turning off the auto-magic and flying the plane and uncoupled visual approach is practically an emergency maneuver. Autothrottle doesn't work or does something unexpected? They'll fly it right into a stick shaker and blame Boeing - see Asiana in SFO.

It's a different world out there. But careful, some of our progressive friends may call you some kind of an *ist or *phobe for even suggesting that.

It was the same, just some of the steps were in notes, that you were expected to know and comply with. The FAA wanted them all made into steps.

ATC MEMES

Have you done it? The trim doesn't stop when you start the checklist and 10 seconds of running trim is going to cause significant stab forces to maintain straight and level. And by the way, prior to the accidents, the stab trim cutout occured after the first "if runaway continues." And there was no discussion of a technique on how to use the trim wheel or a discussion of unloading the flight controls as the ONLY method of manually trimming in a recovery from a runaway

All correct, but it is not common to have the SPEED TRIM system trying to pull the yoke out of your hands.

I don’t get it. Is it not natural pilot nature to trim back against control forces that are pulling the yoke out of your hands in the nose down direction?

Yes, I have done it... to include step 4 and 5. Step 5 has you retrim before turning the switches off. If you do it wrong you have to work harder, but the plane is controllable, unless you skipped step 4 as well.

There had not been a runaway stab in many years. SWA didn't even have it as a memory item anymore, but they were still expected to know it. The Stab Trim cutout did occur after the first "if runaway continues", but I bet you never read the notes. It still told you to trim before turning them off.

It doesn't pull out out of his hands, no. But by the time you recognize that it isn't doing what you want, it may be too late.

For example, I like to see that the airplane is doing. As you go from flaps down to flaps up and as you accelerate, constant trim changes occur. Sometimes I don't trim it out right away because I know after acceleration height, the trim required to go from flaps 5 to zero will be cancelled out somewhat by the trim required to go from 180-250. And I like to see what the speed trim is going to do. So no, I'm not always in perfect trim.

Well, the guy that said that is on trial this week. The people he was talking about are not. The FBI found no evidence of Management pressure.

The only clown he is worried about now if the one from the FAA that testified against him yesterday.

There are no notes in the memory items to trim out the runaway trim condition.