Originally Posted by Aero1900 (Post 3393808)

All of the chest thumping "An American pilot wouldn't have crashed!" is great and all except for the fact that Boeing sells jets to every airline in the world.

The company needs to make a product that the customer can manage

Originally Posted by emersonbiguns (Post 3393815)

To what standard are foreign customers required to train their pilots in your world?

Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER (Post 3393059)

Precisely. If the airplane is pulling the yolk out of your hands effing TRIM!! These autopilot monkeys were trying to reengage the damn autopilot.

Originally Posted by Nantonaku (Post 3393878)

I thought I read the Ethiopian crew managed to get the AP for a few seconds and it not only helped but it would have saved them if they would have kept it on. I’m confused on how manual trimming works here, manual trimming (from the switches not the wheel) overrides MCAS? But only after holding it for two seconds? What happens in those two seconds before it works? That seems like a long time to hold the switches without any feedback.

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3393897)

You turn off the electric trim motors and literally hand crank the trim. The wheel has a handle that pops out

Originally Posted by Nantonaku (Post 3393933)

But you have to hold it for two seconds while nothing is happening?

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3393948)

If it didn't trim instantly, I would be inclined to pump the trim switches, not hold them and wait for something to happen. So they'd have to teach you to hold them down... but that's kind of hard to explain when they pretend the entire system doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by Duffman (Post 3393355)

I don't fly 73s, but I'd really appreciate clarification on the following:
-I thought the pitch trim cutouts wouldn't work with an MCAS, so it'd trim you full nose down after a few activations and the trim runaway memory items wouldn't solve the problem,
-I also thought the quick disconnect didn't work on the MCAS and both captains had hammered that button to no effect,
-I also thought if you trimmed it the other way, it would stop the aircraft from trimming more nose down, but wouldn't allow you to trim up, so after a couple of MCAS activations, there just wasn't enough control authority in the elevator to save the aircraft

Also, with MCAS, do you see the trim wheel on the center console spinning? Or is it bypassing it and just running the jackscrew in the tail? If it is spinning, can you jam it, stomp on it, or even spin it in the opposite direction? Or would that be like fighting a 1000 ft-lb impact driver?

I'm not trying to start anything, just genuinely curious.

Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER (Post 3393572)

Bingo. I don’t think pilots in the U.S. can fully appreciate how ingrained automation reliance is to the overseas autopilot monkeys/children of the magenta.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76 (Post 3393543)

Until one has flown overseas, they'll have a difficult time understanding many things about these two crashes. It is a completely different world out there. Everything is based on autopilot. When doing a V1 cut, the very first item you do is turn the autopilot on at 400'. Before doing any checklist or memory items... autopilot first. When doing a visual approach, it requires to be programmed and both pilots will without fail be heads down trying to program it instead of turning off the auto-magic and flying the plane and uncoupled visual approach is practically an emergency maneuver. Autothrottle doesn't work or does something unexpected? They'll fly it right into a stick shaker and blame Boeing - see Asiana in SFO.

It's a different world out there. But careful, some of our progressive friends may call you some kind of an *ist or *phobe for even suggesting that.