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PNWFlyer 02-20-2022 09:18 AM


Originally Posted by TiredSoul (Post 3375890)
If I recall correctly it was a AOA unit which had not been calibrated (correctly).

yes, they are supposed to come calibrated and a check it required after installation. Neither was done. After the Bali flight the Captain didn’t bother to write up the AOA issue. Only the AS Disagree. So no one checked the AOA vane.

the point is while Boeing has an issue with how MCAS could malfunction, the aircraft was not un-flyable like the show describes.

PNWFlyer 02-20-2022 09:25 AM


that info is out of date. Many of the state awards have been canceled at Boeing request after AB lost many of theirs. Guess you think Airbus is the only manufacturer that should receive these so called bailouts. How much has Airbus had to pay for their bribery scandal? If they are so clean what was the purpose of all the bribery? All these companies and Governments are corrupted and keep each other paid.

Why don’t you try to fix it.

try watching the movie “Dark Waters” if you want to see real corruption.

BeatNavy 02-20-2022 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by PNWFlyer (Post 3375908)
that info is out of date. Many of the state awards have been canceled at Boeing request after AB lost many of theirs. Guess you think Airbus is the only manufacturer that should receive these so called bailouts. How much has Airbus had to pay for their bribery scandal? If they are so clean what was the purpose of all the bribery? All these companies and Governments are corrupted and keep each other paid.

Why don’t you try to fix it.

try watching the movie “Dark Waters” if you want to see real corruption.

You claimed boeing didn’t take bailouts. I provided evidence to the contrary. Can you show me where I mentioned Airbus or where I said anybody else was clean?

rickair7777 02-21-2022 05:51 AM


Originally Posted by EnergyManager (Post 3375838)
Only the invisible hand of the free market will.

It appears to be happening now.

But since BCA is such a large exporter (#1, at least pre-Max), it's probably worth trying to lead-turn the market forces.


And yes both BCA and AB have enjoyed a large variety of generous subsidies over the years, and have also been suing each other over that for years.

dera 02-21-2022 11:25 PM


Originally Posted by TiredSoul (Post 3375890)
If I recall correctly it was a AOA unit which had not been calibrated (correctly).

It was supplied by a Miami 36th street junk dealer, with falsified paperwork.

EyeKantEven 02-22-2022 06:23 AM

I blame it on the high bypass turbofans: The '73 was designed for straight pipes and has been fudged (quite successfully) since the Classic series. But these LEAP engines gave Airbus a HUGE advantage because there was room under the 320 wings for 'em. Those big-ass fans. The "-1B" engines themselves are a compromise vs the "-1A" -- (9:1 vs 11:1 bypass ratio).

The icing on the cake was the constraint that the MAX must be common type -- at all cost: clean sheet was not an option because of development time and another $10B or so in costs.

The huge enabler? The FAA delegating verification of certification requirements to Boeing. The hen guarding the foxhouse.

rickair7777 02-22-2022 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by EyeKantEven (Post 3376785)
I blame it on the high bypass turbofans: The '73 was designed for straight pipes and has been fudged (quite successfully) since the Classic series. But these LEAP engines gave Airbus a HUGE advantage because there was room under the 320 wings for 'em. Those big-ass fans. The "-1B" engines themselves are a compromise vs the "-1A" -- (9:1 vs 11:1 bypass ratio).

The icing on the cake was the constraint that the MAX must be common type -- at all cost: clean sheet was not an option because of development time and another $10B or so in costs.

The huge enabler? FAA delegating verification of certification requirements to Boeing. The hen guarding the foxhouse.

Yes, AB had an advantage with the longer legs on the 320, that was an accident of history. Or the natural progression to larger bypass and fan diameters.

737 does has an accidental advantage in that the fuselage is narrower, so less weight and form drag and better inherent efficiency. But it's easier for AB to use higher-bypass motors.

Rama 02-22-2022 09:04 PM

I think what is missing in this picture is that Boeing purposely hid this system as far as pilot training and understanding of it to save money for the operators and in the end, Boeing.
It gave the crews who encountered a problem nothing to work with or understand in order to deal with it. A highly experienced crew may have been able to handle it it just fine, but that is not the smart or safe way to handle a new aircraft.
This is a huge problem because the bean counters have too much influence in their operations.

AllYourBaseAreB 02-23-2022 06:11 AM

The single point of failure with only one AOA was criminally cheap of them

TransWorld 02-23-2022 10:51 AM


Originally Posted by AllYourBaseAreB (Post 3377515)
The single point of failure with only one AOA was criminally cheap of them

Key and Critical instrumentation and Equipment need to be redundant. Commercial airplanes have two engines for this very reason.


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