av8or

Hired straight into a major in the 90’s?? From WHERE? An F-18 or C-5? Most of the 90’s had thousands of Eastern, Pan Am and Midway pilots on the street. The 90’s had pay for apply, pay for interview, and pay for training to sit right seat in a Brazilia for 17k a year in the HOPES you MIGHT make it to a major. Late 98-99 were good hiring years, and even THEN, you still had to have Turbine PIC, (sometimes 500 turbine PIC 121) and degree and in the case of SWA a 737 type. And then 1.5 to 2 years later 9/11 goes down.

“The 90’s were an amazing decade for getting hired at a major airline”….. things never said by pilots who were there.

Gone Flying

post desert storm was definitely different, but I have met a few folks hired in the mid to late 80s at UA and AA who did not meet ATP minimums (Civilian background). One was a 75/76 CA less than a decade later.

with the exception of some single seat guys, just about everyone in my class had at least 3-4K hours, with the average probably closer to 5k. I think everyone except maybe one person had TPIC. The average age of everyone was around 37. This was right before Covid

CBreezy

That's an epic rant. I think it should be required to submit all responses via mobile device to shorten responses.

Opteryx

Good one - but then there's Siri....

CBreezy

I think it would be more frustrating to dictate some of these novels via Siri than just to type them out. What do I know? I don't walk around the airport yelling texts at my phone.

Mytime2025

The bigger question is why in the world do people give a sh*t when someone else retires? Deal with your own life and stay out of others personal decisions. Like listening to 3rd graders fighting over the kick ball. Now go sit in the corner until you can stop pouting. Age is going up to 67 so just deal with it and stop acting like spoiled rotten babies.

Opteryx

Well, one definitely gets a sense of entitlement coming from the younger pilots here. But as I said it's not as simple as they are making it out to be. They probably see me walking around the airport and think "there's another Boomer standing in my way to those cush senior lines" when in all probability, they are senior to me and standing in MY way. You just never know.

Everyone's situation is different and we all made choices. We are also all under the thumb of the fate of our timing of when 9-11/2008/COVID etc. happened in relation to our careers. I'm happy I joined the military and got to do what I did - means I made less money than my buddies who went straight to the airlines, but I got to see the world, do interesting things, and I got a military retirement.

I think the younger pilots right now should feel fortunate they are coming into the industry when they are - a 'relatively' easy path to a (hopefully) long career with the airlines in (hopefully) stable times. I'm happy for them. But please don't blame me or my generation for all of your perceived issues.

BlueSkies

Really? In a seniority based system where your upward movement is literally based on retirements you wonder why people care? I mean you can be for or against raising the age but it's not rocket surgery to figure out that stopping mandatory retirements for 2 years affects everyone on the list.

Myfingershurt

I think people don’t realize the pyramid scheme that is being an airline pilot. So much of today’s shortage cam from the last time the retirement age was raised. That caused prospective pilots to either not go to flight school or wait before plopping down huge amounts of money knowing they were going to have to wait five more years to move up the ladder. Without the steady flow of people out of the top of the chain there will not be a steady flow of people into the bottom. Raising the age again will once again give pause to future pilots starting their training. The only thing that will fix the pilot shortage is making flight training affordable or making the prize at the end more valuable.

fasteddie800

Should pilots be forced to retire at age 65 so that younger pilots are able to move up? No.
Should pilots be forced to retire at age 65 so that they aren't a threat to the flying public? Yes.

If you disagree with that second statement, I'd challenge you to go hang out with a group of 65 year olds. I get to on a daily basis here in corporate America. They tend to fall in three camps:When you look at the over-65 crowd at the company, only about 20% of them are Masters or Experts. The rest are Liabilities. The problem none of the Liabilities actually recognize they're a Liability. They all think they're a Master, or at least an Expert.

The old adage of "fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts" holds true.

Masters and Experts are generally more self aware, and recognize when their mental faculties may be on the decline. You notice they'll reserve the morning for any mentally intensive task (meetings, etc). They've recognized that, as the day goes on, their abilities have started to diminish in a way they didn't just a few short years ago. Often, they'll move to part time or consultant status.

Liabilities on the other hand, they're Full Speed Ahead. No one can get in their way. If you watch them, you see they do OK early in the day, but as they get tired, they get argumentative and pushy. They sometimes struggle to get their point across, or struggle to form their thoughts, and they just don't understand why. That makes them even more irritated, and they come across as difficult and grumpy. No matter though, they'll just push through by moving faster and talking louder. No youngsters are going to stand in their way!

Medical science is good at a lot of things, but they don't have a handle on cognitive decline due to aging. Some people are sharp into their 90s, some people deteriorate in their 50s. For some, it happens overnight, for others it's a long, slow decline.

I don't know the answer, but dealing with a bunch of Liabilities in the workplace has been an incredible headache. I think it's a good deal for the general public if pilots (and other professions) gracefully bow-out at 65.