Well there's an option. If you want to work past 65, you can fly all of the parked RJ's. I am not even sure I want to stay past 60, but if I were to stay past 65, I'd have to look hard at my LTD plan.

 

I’ve also flown with 64 year old pilots whose knees are also shaking. I’m not sure if it’s the nervous system or the reduced bladder control.

 

They care what the media and the voters think though and nothing starts freaking passengers out more than pilots saying something isnt safe. I think if the big unions wanted to PR this they could stop it.

 

I think you give the American public way too much credit. The American public has the attention span of a fly and trying to get them to agree that 65 to 67, 2 more years, is not “safe,” good luck with that PR attempt.

They care more about the cost of their ticket, legroom, and if their fat sister can sit in 2 seats for the price of 1.

 

Well there's an option. If you want to work past 65, you can fly all of the parked RJ's. I am not even sure I want to stay past 60, but if I were to stay past 65, I'd have to look hard at my LTD plan.

Mmmm K! In more than 2 decades that I have been sitting to the left or right of pilots who say this I can pretty much guarantee all of them stayed till the mandatory retirement age. Tanker when you get to 60 and voluntarily leave 5 years of your biggest earning potential on the table send an email to me at [email protected]. I will gladly sell you 5 of the most spectacular miles of that bridge and put a sign up with your name on it at the beginning of your 5 mile stretch.

 

“Hello crew scheduling, this is captain Geez. I’ll be calling in fatigued for the next 4 legs of todays trip. Get me a hotel please.”

 

Yes, in the "more than 2 decades" through the worst time in US airline history, right? Through the lowest payrates, the crappiest contracts and losing pension plans? Understandably, that mentality may apply to all of the guys playing catch up from the lost decade (and a half) and If I were in their shoes, I'd probably stay as well. In theory, we'll have pilots who have the opportunity to be Captains for 25+ years of their careers. $10M+ in earnings easily, plus a 401k potentially worth $7-8M+. 4% rule of $280,000 per year in retirement income? Really?! They'll be in the "biggest earning potential" of their lives for 15 years and will be in a much different place than the CA's of the past. I got hired later in life due to 16 years full-time military, but will have a military pension when I turn 58 worth over $70k a year (equivalent to about $1.2M), adjusted for inflation for life and even if I stopped contributing to my 401k/IRA today, I'd hit the bottom end of my retirement goal window. You can't take your money with you when you die and I sure as hell will not leave my kids millions of dollars. They'll be taken care of if I turn into hydrocarbons, but I am not making them inherited millionaires. They can work for it like I did. I mean, how much do you really need in retirement savings? There's no easy answer to that. Everyone is different, but my goal is $2.5-3M and from my planning, I should be there by 60. I don't anticipate sticking around to play in some weenie swinging contest unless I still need the income to reach my goal. Could that change? Of course....

 

Amen on “cant take it with you and/or spoiling the kids”, I agree on those points but I also know the lack of fiduciary responsibility regarding any governmental budget. I served as well and I’ve heard there’s been talk of means testing federal pensions and benefits. Yes I know it would be a fight to implement but I don’t put anything past our very broke and drunk spending budgetary committees. Look at Social Security for one. That program is already dead but it just doesn’t know it yet. In todays dollars per the actuaries an individual is going to spend around 300-500k just in health care costs (I’m not including Tri-Care). God forbid you come down with a costly disease which go well into 7 figures. I look it as this. If I maintain health in those 5 years I’ll take the extra 2.5-3 million as a buffer. If our government decides it’s time to balance the budget pain will be felt on both ends of the spectrum and all through the middle.

 

So, for age 67 promoters and FTUD(fly till you die) promoters, I offer this recommendation:
We need to de-leverage seniority is done here at the airlines. I don't suggest abandoning seniority, just stopping the carveout for the super senior.

Delta has started de-leveraging seniority by doing a couple things:
1) booking of jumpseats by first come first serve, (I think AA does this to).
2) Green slips based upon senior gets first shot at premium, then a more Jr pilot gets a stab before the senior takes another helping at the trough.

Consider this:
I propose we bid for vacation in a round robin type system. 1 week vacation for the most senior, then down the list. Each round only gets one week of vacation before a jr pilot gets a shot. No more senior guy gets 3 weeks of vacation over the summer before the Jr get nothing.
I propose we bid for golden days off for vacations (the senior will still get everything they want), but those that are less senior will have to pick which vacations they want without getting them all off.
- A Jr pilot still will most likely not get Christmas/Thanksgiving/4th of July, but maybe they get Easter Weekend, or MLK weekend, or President's day weekend, Juneteenth, or Halloween
I also think that Jr guys should be able to bid for 2-3 days off a month based on their seniority before PBS starts building. Make PBS build us schedules around those days. Not everyone gets the same weekend off, but I still think that it's not too much to ask for a Jr lineholder to get one weekend off a month. Or if they choose to bid off their kids birthday, or valentine's day, or anniversary, we deserve that.

This isn't a senior vs junior argument. It's an argument for going back to being real unions. Right now most airlines basically carve out everything for the super senior. This happened during bankruptcy and with the advent of PBS type systems (don't give up your system without PBS SWAPA).

Under old ways of scheduling (Preconstructed lines) senior pilots had to make a choice: more days off, holiday off, more pay, better layovers, etc.

Right now with the way most PBS systems are designed, the senior take their turn at the trough before a Jr guy even gets a bite.
Why should the top 5% in seniority get day turn trips and someone at 10% can't touch one. Is it reasonable to expect everyone will ever be able to get a schedule like this?

Top 10% on the widebody gets all the super effecient trips and a guy at 50% can't even touch that city-pair till they are close to 10%?

Top seniority guy only knows how to fly to 1 or 2 city pairs on the WB. Sounds like a carve out.

Well, since now we will all most likely breath our last up at 40,000 ft, we need to rethink the design of our PBS systems and seniority heavy system.

No one is recommending that we remove seniority, it is necessary. I am merely suggesting there are ways to allow a more consistent QOL throughout your career.

That pilot that was hired at 23 will most likely be here till they are 80, think it's a real union based system that allows them to constantly get everything they want while you get nothing?

Bring on the comments. Flame on...

 

And most of these pilots put these trips back into the pot for drop so they can pick up green slips/premium.