I just noticed that this thread has something like 37 thousand plus views....


This is beginning to look like some never-ending soap opera (or a slow-motion car wreck), depending upon which side you're on.

 

Now the -400's are owned by GAL and were agreed to be leased to C360. With the merger, this has to be re-negotiated (guessing) and since this past summer GAL bought World Airways, they have given them two -400's already. The rumor on the street is they are considering giving World the -400's that were earmarked for C360. Remember, thats the rumor.[/QUOTE]

I heard Oak Hill fixed that problem by buying GAL, so the 400s stayed with the merger.

 

I believe "Guggenhiem Aviation Partners" is different from the company that bought World. I don't think Oak Hill bought GAP, but I may be wrong.

GAP is the owner of the two former Malaysian 747-400 Combis that are being converted to -400 BCFs...and being leased to (drum roll please) ???

 

I can only speak for myself but I don't care if I fly the 400 or not. I would not mind seeing the C360 boys fly those. I just want the paycheck. It is probably not worth talking about anyway. I would be suprised to see a SA painted on any 400's. I don't want any animosity amongst the groups but it probably is inevitable. I am one of those that probably won't be affected one way or the other. I might get bumped back a bit but there will also be a few behind me. I wish all the C360 guys luck. I would be ****ed to if I spent the last year building something nice just to have it sold.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Someone told me that GAP and GAL were one company. Not true. Sorry for the speculation.

GAP = Guggenhiem Aviation Partners
GAL = Global Air Logistics

OK.... I think I got it straight now.

 

Guess that isn't anything new in the corporation part of the world. Big corp tries to expand and winds up owning two companies that offer the same product. Close smaller of the two and move all the assets to the larger one. Then choose the management team from those they think they can control the easiest. No regard given to the people actually doing the work for either company. Unfortunately it seems to be more common now than before. Those of us working the line are left to pick up the pieces and make the best of it that we can.

 

UFO, you're absolutely right! Deal is signed. Now it is time to get on with it. SACG is meeting with the company in the next few days and hopefully they can get some of this merger stuff worked out. As for the c360 guys, do any of you remember Challenge Air Cargo. Be glad you are even being offer a job. Those poor guys never had a chance. If your going to work for SAH then do it and lets try and make it a better place to work. If not then go on back to where you came from and leave the fight to those that are trying to do right by everyone and not just the few.
IMHO it is time to stop all the whining and try to work together and get the best we can for everyone. C360 is dead. Now let's move on!

 

We have been fight for the betterment of both group's, but it hard to fight for a "merger" that you are not being given the time of day by the company you have just acquired ie SA. We have been told at least three times we would have information. Each and every time the information has not arrived. We are not part of SACG therefor we can't fight for anything on that side of the fence. We are fighting for what we can, are you? The attorney that is fighting on your behalf was offered up by one of our people. We have pushed your company at the meetings and given them a single spaced sheet of improvements we would like to see. The person who will probably take over your scheduling is from our side of the fence and will not take the job unless he can schedule without interference from the company. How is this wining at not helping. You folks have been trying to put your house in order and losing a great deal of the time. We are outsiders looking in and have been able to use the leverage of the SA management's needs of our pilot group to help better your company. Not help, Sir I think you fail to grasp what we can do and can't do based on the current situation of "the job offer is in the mail, again". Until the offer is in writing in my hand I have NO offer, and yet we are still trying to help make SA a better place.
As far as going back to where I came from, I can't, as most of the people here can not. We are moving on and until the SA management and SACG come to an agreement on how this whole thing can come together and not violate your agreement we at C360 shall just have all sit and wait.
Our best help is in our current situation they need us and will do what it takes to get us (I hope), but if it is not in writing, it is just smoke in the wind and will not have a lasting affect. We want side letter agreements and additions to the contract, something in writing that we can fight for in court if we have to.

 

From my understanding, the reason you haven't got an offer is because SACG stepped in and put a stop to what SA wanted to do. You guys will become part of our group, therefore the group has (and should have) something to say about any offers that are made. Our contract has provisions for this type of growth and we are going to stick to the contract. My guess is that when this is all said and done, nobody is going to get everything they would like to have had. I think it is best that the two pilot groups try to work together and get the best deal possible for all concerned. I just don't want to see a lot of bickering after we start sharing cockpits and everyone's paycheck is signed by the same person. Once that happpens, no matter the outcome, we all need to be working from the same gameplan.
As for scheduling, I couldn't agree with you more. SA has scheduling issues, and if your guy can help, I am all for it. However, since that is really beyound our scope as a group, there is little we can do. We can make suggestions (maybe a little pressure here and there), but those positions are up to SA management.
I really hope 360 crewmember reps and SACG reps are actively working together to get a fair deal for all, because that is what we all want.

 

Well, would someone in the SACG please enlighten us as to what exactly the sticking points are and what they are fighting for? Is it something that only benifits current SAI crews or is it something that would benift the C360 employees as well?

The SACG needs to understand that we here at C360 have heard absolutly NOTHING as to how the merger is going to go down, what the offer is going to be, what the seniority list is going to look like, are the -400's still coming, if so, how is going to be bid, what improvements are in quality of life are in the works, is the first plane still going to transfer on 1 Nov or has the merger of aircraft/crews been pushed back?...nothing, nada, zip!
Our management, which has been shuned by the SAH doesn't know anything either. It's all just a big question mark over here. The fact that the SACG is fighting for something means they know more than us. Please share the info. Also, in an effort to squash rumors, please site sources or be honest with the quality or reliablity of the information. Feeding the rumor machine does nobody any good.

From what I've read here, the C360 guys are not trying to be arrogant or condesending in any way. We are just trying to plan our lives and figure what our next step is going to be. To do what is right for our carrers/family etc. We have mortgages to pay, mouths to feed, payments to be made, but we don't know who is going to be signing our paycheck or for how long. It is extremely difficult to do that when we have heard NOTHING official and our only source of info is from rumors on the internet.

This is not a indictment of the SACG! It's more of an indictment of SAH management. Is this what life under the Neffs is going to be like? The silence on behalf of the SAH management is not winning over any friends over here. Who's the genius that seems to think, silence, secrecy, and lack of comunication is good technique in trying to bring two groups of people together?