Judge's Decision in UAL v. ALPA
11-21-2008, 02:47 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 225
WRT the economy: we have been fleeced in the labor market (bk), retirement (pensions/age 65), housing market, the energy markets and now wall street. All to the tunes of 100s of billions of dollars. This money is going somewhere.
The point is: where is the next raping to occur?
The point is: where is the next raping to occur?
11-21-2008, 08:04 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: non acceptus excretus
Posts: 561
Remember that we have been in decline since 1980 and in the totality of the circumstances we don't have a lot left to lose. We might as well have a good fight out of it because the end result is essentially the same...Kind of like the ending scene in THE WILD BUNCH.
11-21-2008, 09:17 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
Originally Posted by Flameout
Pilot unions will never win here. Remember APA's "Operation Fire at Will" about ten years ago? Lasted about an hour, as I recall, before Clinton ordered them back to work.
Last edited by jsled; 11-21-2008 at 09:26 PM.
11-21-2008, 09:34 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by jsled
That was 1997. In 1998, Northwest pilots walked and Clinton let it happen. There are many theories as to why Clinton stopped the AMR pilots strike but not the Northwest Pilots strike. One is that AMR pilot leadership WANTED him to. Another is that APA was a small, unaffiliated union (unlike ALPA with the AFLCIO) whose majority Texan members voted republican anyway. I don't know. It is interesting to note that Clinton allowed an AMR flight attendant strike for 5 days just before Thanksgiving in 1993. He called Crandall and the union and urged binding arbitration which Crandall reluctantly agreed to. In any case, it was a lot better then than now. Now, this administration's NMB members don't even release a union to strike until 5 FLIPPIN YEARS after the amendable date. I will bet a six pack that doesn't happen in the next 4 years. Any takers?
11-21-2008, 09:53 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
Originally Posted by AL E NEWMAN
Incoming administration is going to give you Mandatory binding arbitration, if the two parties can't agree to a contract within a given amount of time. I will leave it up to you to draw your own conclusions if this is to our benefit or not.
11-22-2008, 11:52 PM
#37
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 58
Not true
Originally Posted by RogAir
I have not read the ruling (disclaimer) but have heard that it pretty much bars pilots from adding gas or calling in fatigued. If this is true, isn't this a flight safety issue? Where is the FAA???
IT IS ORDERED that the Defendants, and each of them, their members, agents and employees, and all persons and organizations acting by, in concert with, through or under them, or by and through their orders, are hereby enjoined, pending a hearing on the permanent injunction in this matter, from calling, permitting, instigating, authorizing, encouraging, participating in, approving or continuing any interference with United’s airline operations, including but not limited to any strike, work stoppage, sick-out, slowdown, work to rule campaign, concerted refusal to accept voluntary or overtime flying, or other concerted refusal to perform normal pilot operations in violation of the RLA, 45 U.S.C. §§ 151 et seq.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the Defendants shall take all reasonable steps within their power to prevent the aforesaid actions, and to refrain from continuing the aforesaid actions if commenced, including but not limited to the following:
(a) Instructing all ALPA-represented pilots employed by United to resume their normal working schedule and practices...
(a) Instructing all ALPA-represented pilots employed by United to resume their normal working schedule and practices...
11-24-2008, 06:14 AM
#38
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,397
Originally Posted by cactusdog16
That's not true. Here it is, in part:
IT IS ORDERED that the Defendants, and each of them, their members, agents and employees, and all persons and organizations acting by, in concert with, through or under them, or by and through their orders, are hereby enjoined, pending a hearing on the permanent injunction in this matter, from calling, permitting, instigating, authorizing, encouraging, participating in, approving or continuing any interference with United’s airline operations, including but not limited to any strike, work stoppage, sick-out, slowdown, work to rule campaign, concerted refusal to accept voluntary or overtime flying, or other concerted refusal to perform normal pilot operations in violation of the RLA, 45 U.S.C. §§ 151 et seq.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the Defendants shall take all reasonable steps within their power to prevent the aforesaid actions, and to refrain from continuing the aforesaid actions if commenced, including but not limited to the following:
(a) Instructing all ALPA-represented pilots employed by United to resume their normal working schedule and practices...
(a) Instructing all ALPA-represented pilots employed by United to resume their normal working schedule and practices...
Now matter how dishonorable mgmt may be, no matter how legitimate your complaints are about their destroying of the company and raping of the contract (while taking bonuses for themselves), you cannot institute concerted withholding-of-service unless allowed to under the RLA.
Pilots have been sued at AA, DAL, and now UAL--and lost every time. Grass roots, whispering campaigns just don't pan out in the end. Fly how you wish, don't worry about how any one else chooses to, and when your leadership explicitly directs a certain plan of action, then implement it ferociously. That is the most effective way for a pilot's union to work, even if it doesn't generate the most immediate high-fiving, "feel-good" sensations. Sometimes the more composed, rational approach actually proves the most effective.
11-24-2008, 10:12 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 737
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by RogAir
I have not read the ruling (disclaimer) but have heard that it pretty much bars pilots from adding gas or calling in fatigued. If this is true, isn't this a flight safety issue? Where is the FAA???
Keeping us from adding gas?
Just added some the last trip...still employed too.
11-24-2008, 07:07 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
we got all kinds of warnings-- letters , phone calls, emails, enotes etc.... stating th efollowing:
1. only call in sick , if your sick
2. pick up overtime-- aka junior and senior man all you can
3. Basically dont go out of your way to cause delays etc.
and my personal favorite
4. dont say anything derogatory about
A) the ruling
B) the judge
well last time i checked this is america so let me end this post byt stating the following:
the judge is a complete freaking moron, she got the ruling completely wrong and she cant make me pick up overtime and i will not do it.
she doesnt get it-- someone needs to put her on the stand and ask her how she would feel about taking a 40% pay cut, lose some vacation, work more hours, and if she was abotu to lsoe her job, if she would call in sick to find alternate employment.
shes is an embarassment to the freaking bench and should just retire
1. only call in sick , if your sick
2. pick up overtime-- aka junior and senior man all you can
3. Basically dont go out of your way to cause delays etc.
and my personal favorite
4. dont say anything derogatory about
A) the ruling
B) the judge
well last time i checked this is america so let me end this post byt stating the following:
the judge is a complete freaking moron, she got the ruling completely wrong and she cant make me pick up overtime and i will not do it.
she doesnt get it-- someone needs to put her on the stand and ask her how she would feel about taking a 40% pay cut, lose some vacation, work more hours, and if she was abotu to lsoe her job, if she would call in sick to find alternate employment.
shes is an embarassment to the freaking bench and should just retire
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