Hey guys, This same guy posts on jetbluepilots.com as "biscuit". He is a total loser, not to mention a whiner.

Not to worry, the vote is not really in question. Notice the number of desperate management plants posting everwhere?

Whether it is ALPA or JBPA, the "Yes's" are a fact!

 

While I agree that Water should be ignored, I think we should show WalMart a little more credit. They like to hire individuals who have at least "some" pride.

AL

 

I am not trying to undermine anyone's intelligence or motives on this issue. I am simply stating that the overall ability for a pilot group to achieve its goals is irrespective of any type of formal organization (i.e. In-House or National Representation). What it takes is a dedicated group of volunteer pilots to take interest in it and move forward on it. (In a lot of ways this already exists at JB)

The objectives of this group of volunteers must accurately reflect the demographic that it represents. That is a very hard thing to do. Getting 10 pilots in a room to agree on what color to paint it is hard enough. Imagine 2000 or even 10000 pilots in that room. How do you get there from here? Well you need scientific polling and data collecting. You also need to launch a campaign to get everyone singing the same song---solidarity. My point is: all this can be accomplished without ALPA, without Teamsters and without an In-House union. It can't be done without people willing to roll up their sleeves and willing to volunteer.

Even with a group of volunteers managing the true wants and needs the pilots accurately, they still face a daunting task: to get 2000 pilots to march in lock step with one another. Once again, it takes more than a "union" to accomplish this. It takes a very charismatic committee of volunteers to make it happen. A national union does not assign a squad of cheerleaders to perform pep rallies every Friday night. It comes from within - in a grassroots fashion so to speak.

With all that said, the real benefit of having formal representation vs. non-formal is the deep pockets a national association can provide. In fact many independent unions tap ALPAs experts for support on issues such as Legal, Medical, Economic and Financial Analysis and Counsel. As of now JetBlue pilots are wholly dependent on their own and company provided resources on these issues. This is the real benefit JetBlue pilots will realize if a union is voted in and what their dues will be allocated to pay for. Pay rates and work rules will not miraculously manifest in the form of an industry leading contract, that is solely dependent on the local level of volunteers.

I often overhear pilots bashing ALPA/Teamsters for inequities they have suffered in their career. Most of the time it is someone who has never volunteered to contribute time to the very union they are apart of. Pilots often think, "I pay my dues, therefore I reserve the right to enjoy my hard earned time off and The Union is there to take care of the rest." That could not be further from the truth. Pilots need to take the time to educate themselves on how a pilot union really works. Their expectations of it then can be realigned with what they are really paying for. I don't agree with how it works, but I like to think I understand it.

 

Want to know "who" is the "Band of Blue"?

Go here,

http://bandofblue.info/index_files/Page316.htm

 

I am still on the fence and have not heard anything that makes me go one way or another, as for the captains I have flown with, I would say most are against it or unsure, I have not met one that is all for it. It seems the group of pilots most for it are 320 pilots LGB, or FLL based. I have heard lots of talk about getting better benefits which I believe we can get, but then I will be paying 2% to the union so it may be a wash. I believe those of you that think we will get pay raises with a union are mistaken, I don't think we can negotiate higher pay and better benefits, unless Jetblue starts posting some serious profits. I came from Mesa and seen first hand what it was like to work for a A-hole and it does not matter if you have a union or not if they want to treat you like crap, they will regardless of your contract (ask United guys). The best thing for a pilot group is having a good working relationship with management, my only hope is if the union does get voted in our relationship with management is a good one. I have read the PCRB many times over and I know we are not the best paid in the industry, but you couldn't have paid me twice as much to stay at Mesa (pay isn't everything).

 

Oh yeah, just ask us, (the CAL guys), about that. We had what was called a partnership accord with management that supposedly guaranteed they would consult us first with any changes and supply us with BOD type info. Our side of the agreement was to not embarass the company with protests, picketing or other forms of dissatisfaction.

Unfortunately, we held up our end of the bargain while the company gave us ABSOLUTELY NOTHING,

Good luck with "good working relations with management".

Management is not your friend and you guys are in desperate need of some form of solidarity to confront them with.

Waterboard and his band of blue idiots are just management wanna-be's who can't wait to make the leap over to the dark side, (see corporate HQ).

 

let me give you a few examples of thisg we can negotiate with a union that will cost nothing, are extremely important for oyu r future and cannot be put in place without a cba becasue they are either extemely expensive or ilegal due to discrimination laws:

1- real LOL (that is loss of license). now we have LTD ,not loss of license. we have ltd becasue it is offered to all employee goups. as a pilot there are many things that will prevent you for performing your job that will not prevent a ramper or FA or secretary form performing your job. Now , if you are even able to qualify for LTD, wich is difficult becasue the language does not specify "unable to mantain claa I or II medical", you will receive 60% of your pay taxed, so about 48% take home. unofrtunately, after 6 months on LTD, you loose compnay paid medical, and oyu have to go on COBRA, wich is about $1,200 month for a family of 4. so as a 3 year FO, you can exoect to take home 15k a year after 6 months. after 18 months on COBRA you lose all medical bennfits. period.an good luck trying to find insurance.
a cba will make laguage that gives us 70% of pay untaxed if unable to manain a class I if captain or II if FO and will allow us to mantain compnay medical indfitely . that cost almost nothing

2- our healthcare premiums and deductibles and co pays can be negotiated even if we keep the same medical, making it cheaper for all of us. now we have a $14,400 yearly out of picket maximun for families!!! and it does not inlude prescription.

3- prescription: I know 2 pilots whose sick daughters medications were taken out of the covered medications becasue they cost too much, so now one has to pay 12k a year in medications andthe other 10k. I know of another 320 captain who is fighting cancer and got his cancer medication removed form the covered medictions becasue it was too expensice and now he has to buy it in canada ( e mail came today)

3- schedules, we have no control over ur pairngs, QOL, OR schedules becasue we have no work rules.

4- merger.....enough said hre


I do not have a family or kids, my wife as a nice medical on her job, but some are not so lucky.we need improvements and protections. a lot of the issues I have posted are not legal to fix or are too expensive witout a cba.

I would reccomend you go on the JBPA site and ask questions about our issues ( a lot more than the few I posted when you read the fine print of our sad PEAs) Welcome

I am jfk based and have yet to fly with a captain who does nto support JBPA

 

bla,bla,bla.... more fear monguering with lies and half truths.

you have no ide what JBPA will negotiate.you have no idea how JB management will react once JBPA is elected.

are you teling us that all this "different cultue airline" was only true if we were willing to work for for substandard compesation? good to know!!

read our PEA'S. nowhere does it say we have a "no furlough" clause. read it and understand all you have is a bleak promise you will be paid 70 hours for the duration of the contract. if the contract gets violated , you will be on mediation and then arbitration in NY at your cost for over 6-12 months with a good chance one of the 13,000 arbitratos is a "LABOR RELATIONS" lawyer(good luck buddy).
cba's have a list of arbitrators agreed to by both parties. but we get one of 13,000.....greeeeeat.

our current crap PEAs can't be voided because we are now under a "status quo" situation. aditionally, federal law mandates a "workability agreement to be mantained" while first contract takes place". that means our PEA's .

.

 

A union isn't inherently bad. It can be a good thing. The danger lies when the union is born in an environment where the union seeks to advance it’s own short term wants over the long term viability of the company—“to kill the Goose” analogy.

If the union is founded to provide benefits and make small improvements to QoL, it will do great. If it’s founded to right past “wrongs” in a take-no-prisoners, restore the profession mentality they will kill the company. Based on the wildly unscientific sample of Jet Blue folks I know, my guess is the former, with only a small, very vocal minority advocating the latter.

Just be glad you can vote secretly—at least for now. Card check elections are coming. Imagine the post election environment when everyone’s vote—no matter what the outcome—is public knowledge. Imagine how the union, no, make that the small, very vocal minority would treat the folks who voted no.

 

I think that the DHL package sent out several years ago where management dictated E-190 pay rates and decided to change the "working agreement" would be enough for me.