What are your displacement preferences?
01-13-2009, 06:45 PM
#181
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Check Essential
You do NOT need to bid those seats on every AE. You also do NOT even need to bid them on this AE. The pay protection is based on what your seniority can "hold", whether you actually bid it or not.
There have been several posts in this thread implying that you must list all the pay protected categories in your bids in order to receive the pay protection. That is absolutely incorrect.
Hawaii50 had it right. You better be prepared to commute to any of those bases/categories if you bid them just to "insure" you will continue to get the pay protection.
If you are displaced, you are protected until you or someone junior to you can once again hold the position you were displaced from. That does not mean you have to list all those positions on your bid. It just means you will lose the pay if someone else junior bids into that position at any base.
If pay protection at all costs is your goal, then yes, bid your previous position at every base in the system. But BE AWARE - you might get the award.
There have been several posts in this thread implying that you must list all the pay protected categories in your bids in order to receive the pay protection. That is absolutely incorrect.
Hawaii50 had it right. You better be prepared to commute to any of those bases/categories if you bid them just to "insure" you will continue to get the pay protection.
If you are displaced, you are protected until you or someone junior to you can once again hold the position you were displaced from. That does not mean you have to list all those positions on your bid. It just means you will lose the pay if someone else junior bids into that position at any base.
If pay protection at all costs is your goal, then yes, bid your previous position at every base in the system. But BE AWARE - you might get the award.
Correct, but if like you said, if you want to insure pay protection bid your seat in every base on the MD. Persoanlly a good sked and a good jet are not worth pay protection.
01-13-2009, 07:08 PM
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Do any of you wonder why our great insightful union in negotiating the new contract and pay protection, didn't insure that it included pay protection for getting displaced out of base as well?
Yes, I know it's all about saving money for the company, but it is kind of a pain to have to make that decision (same pay vs. tougher commute), isn't it?
New K Now
Yes, I know it's all about saving money for the company, but it is kind of a pain to have to make that decision (same pay vs. tougher commute), isn't it?
New K Now
01-13-2009, 10:53 PM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Work
Posts: 507
Originally Posted by iaflyer
Yes, but mil guys are supposed to put in DBMS the days that they have military obligations before the PBS bids are run.
I will tell you that 90% of the military guys I talk to don't do that - they don't put anything on their schedule until the trips are run, then drop trips they don't like that interfere with their military duty, or "arrange" military duty so they are home when they need to be.
I will tell you that 90% of the military guys I talk to don't do that - they don't put anything on their schedule until the trips are run, then drop trips they don't like that interfere with their military duty, or "arrange" military duty so they are home when they need to be.
IF people are whining about MLOA I have one thing to say - join the f*cking military. I just heard about junior folks on reserve at DAL that are whining they are having to cover trips that guys are dropping for MLOA? Oh..the humanity. Paid to work....GMAFB. When I retire from the AFRES I'll PD a trip. They can cover it then too. GMAFB.
Last edited by dtfl; 01-13-2009 at 11:03 PM.
01-13-2009, 11:02 PM
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Work
Posts: 507
Originally Posted by FlyinPiker
The most junior NYC 7ER B award went to a 4900 number last go around. Anything is possible of course, but I would expect that trend to continue in regards to getting the position thru an A.E. There are plenty of senior guys (pre '01 hires) that are actually in the NYC/NE area trying to get off the 88 and 73N.
Those that are bidding it via a PD or MD I think won't have a problem but I'd definitely be watching how low I'd be willing to be on the list. Make sure you protect yourself if you aren't willing to except reserve or an extremely low line holder position.
Remember this is going to be a big waterfall effect. Junior ATL capts that want to keep their seat could possibly bump NYC -88 capts concidering they'd hold a line up there. Most of those guys would then in turn bid back to NYC 7ER B and so on. Most of the guys on the ATL 73N are pretty senior as well...will they slum it out on the -88 or go for the commutable easy flying on the ER.
Don't forget to look at what's on the horizon as well. It's not like once the dust clears from this latest AE/displacement we will all resume inching our ways up our respective lists. It would be smart to not only be happy with where you end up, but with that you might continue/or end up being pushed down once we are all one big happy family and airplanes start getting moved around/ senior NWA guys can bid for our vacancies visa versa.
Those that are bidding it via a PD or MD I think won't have a problem but I'd definitely be watching how low I'd be willing to be on the list. Make sure you protect yourself if you aren't willing to except reserve or an extremely low line holder position.
Remember this is going to be a big waterfall effect. Junior ATL capts that want to keep their seat could possibly bump NYC -88 capts concidering they'd hold a line up there. Most of those guys would then in turn bid back to NYC 7ER B and so on. Most of the guys on the ATL 73N are pretty senior as well...will they slum it out on the -88 or go for the commutable easy flying on the ER.
Don't forget to look at what's on the horizon as well. It's not like once the dust clears from this latest AE/displacement we will all resume inching our ways up our respective lists. It would be smart to not only be happy with where you end up, but with that you might continue/or end up being pushed down once we are all one big happy family and airplanes start getting moved around/ senior NWA guys can bid for our vacancies visa versa.
This AE was meant to "realign" the categories (like there were before 2007) and fill the 88s.
01-13-2009, 11:33 PM
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,097
Originally Posted by dtfl
Because PBS treats Mil leave as straight LEAVE. So what do I do when I have a trip that signs in at 0700 Monday morning...yet...I was flying until 2330 the night before at my unit? Hmmm? What do I do when EVERY SINGLE TIME I put MLOA in they jam trips on either side? There are many times I have had to cut my Mil leave (that I had committed to weeks earlier) short so I can make my sign in.
IF people are whining about MLOA I have one thing to say - join the f*cking military. I just heard about junior folks on reserve at DAL that are whining they are having to cover trips that guys are dropping for MLOA? Oh..the humanity. Paid to work....GMAFB. When I retire from the AFRES I'll PD a trip. They can cover it then too. GMAFB.
IF people are whining about MLOA I have one thing to say - join the f*cking military. I just heard about junior folks on reserve at DAL that are whining they are having to cover trips that guys are dropping for MLOA? Oh..the humanity. Paid to work....GMAFB. When I retire from the AFRES I'll PD a trip. They can cover it then too. GMAFB.
-Fatty
01-14-2009, 02:14 AM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by dtfl
IF people are whining about MLOA I have one thing to say - join the f*cking military. I just heard about junior folks on reserve at DAL that are whining they are having to cover trips that guys are dropping for MLOA? Oh..the humanity. Paid to work....GMAFB. When I retire from the AFRES I'll PD a trip. They can cover it then too. GMAFB.
If it weren't for MLOA and people getting sick, I'd probably be back in Mecca every 90 days flying the Sim. Anything that gets me away from that I'm a fan of.
01-14-2009, 02:19 AM
#187
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
So when all the dust settles, where/what category do you all think the most junior pilots will be?
(And by most junior I'm considering the last 50 numbers on the seniority list)
(And by most junior I'm considering the last 50 numbers on the seniority list)
Last edited by DeadHead; 01-14-2009 at 02:36 AM.
01-14-2009, 03:15 AM
#188
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Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: ????????????????
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by dtfl
Because PBS treats Mil leave as straight LEAVE. So what do I do when I have a trip that signs in at 0700 Monday morning...yet...I was flying until 2330 the night before at my unit? Hmmm? What do I do when EVERY SINGLE TIME I put MLOA in they jam trips on either side? There are many times I have had to cut my Mil leave (that I had committed to weeks earlier) short so I can make my sign in.
IF people are whining about MLOA I have one thing to say - join the f*cking military. I just heard about junior folks on reserve at DAL that are whining they are having to cover trips that guys are dropping for MLOA? Oh..the humanity. Paid to work....GMAFB. When I retire from the AFRES I'll PD a trip. They can cover it then too. GMAFB.
IF people are whining about MLOA I have one thing to say - join the f*cking military. I just heard about junior folks on reserve at DAL that are whining they are having to cover trips that guys are dropping for MLOA? Oh..the humanity. Paid to work....GMAFB. When I retire from the AFRES I'll PD a trip. They can cover it then too. GMAFB.
01-14-2009, 03:38 AM
#189
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Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: ????????????????
Posts: 216
I understand the price every soldier in the military pays not just the pilots. I thank all of those who have given to their country including my grandfather, father, brother, cousins, niece and neighbors. I am sorry that this thread continued to be an outlet for something outher than what it was intended for. Most of all, I am SORRY TO ALL THE MILITARY PEOPLE THAT ARE READINGS THIS THREAD AND FEEL THAT PILOTS ARE WHINING ABOUT WHAT THey GIVE EVERY DAY TO THOSE WHO ARE AND ARE NOT SERVING.
01-14-2009, 05:55 AM
#190
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by DeadHead
So when all the dust settles, where/what category do you all think the most junior pilots will be?
(And by most junior I'm considering the last 50 numbers on the seniority list)
(And by most junior I'm considering the last 50 numbers on the seniority list)
My impression is when the company is growing categories tend to get stretched out a bit in terms of seniority. That is; junior guys will be able to bid into a typically more senior category.
When the company is in retrenchment mode, things tighten up a bit. With PBS though, the quality of life of a junior regular line holder or reserve pilot isn't great. So we may not see as much seniority alignment as in the past.
With all that being said, most folks don't care for New York. I firmly believe that it will remain the junior base. I also believe that the Mad Dog will have the most junior pilots and next will be the bottom of the 737-800.
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