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Old 01-26-2009 | 06:53 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by satchip
I know which the public would prefer. 50 seat RJs are universally hated by the flying public.
Not if they're cheap enough... John Q would fly 'em across the Atlantic if the price were right.
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Old 01-26-2009 | 07:01 AM
  #102  
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Yes, the customers hated props now they hate 50 seat jets.
Think of it this way, it is a new way of thinking about costs. See we look at the RJ 50 costing more per seat mile than a big jet. This is true, but we are now also looking at the total cost per segment. RJ's have most jets beat hands down. Though more expensive from a CSAM basis, the total cost to operate the flight is significantly less than a 88 or 9.
See, we are in an environment that does not need a lot of lift. We want to keep service to all cities if possible, and do not want to add seats to the market. Even though the margins are a lot less on a 50 seat jet, it allows DAL to offer a flight, keep seats out of the market, and charge a decent price for the tickets. Same thing as after 9-11. With fuel going down, these 50 seat jets are once again the Recession jets of yesteryear.
As the loads start to pick up late in 2010 to early 2011 you will see a dramatic shift away from the 50's. All this down turn did was take the huge DCI cuts that were going to happen this year and push them off for 12 to 18 months. It allows DAL a little breathing room to let the contracts mature to a point where there are stipulations that WILL allow them to break said contract without a lawsuit. It really works well for management.
We are parking 757's in the desert so that we do not incur the costs of these D checks. We are shoring up out balance books and debt load. Now as stated before when the loads go back up you will see these jets come back to the line, the 88 and 9's go back to more traditional routes, and the 50 seat jet go take that parking spot of the 757 in VCV.
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Old 01-26-2009 | 08:00 AM
  #103  
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From: MadDog gear slinger
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ASA alone is scheduled to lose 20 CRJ-200's next year. Not sure what other DCI carriers have in store for them.
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Old 01-26-2009 | 08:16 AM
  #104  
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Yes, they are planned to phased out by summer 2010.
There is talk of 20+ more 76 seaters to them too. We will see if that is just an ASA rumor or not. I have not gotten anymore on that one.

The 50's are a dead bird, they are just using them to bridge the gap so to speak. We need a 100 seat jet, and no matter what you think the 76 seat variants will just not to the job management wants them to do. They to are a mid term fix. Lets just hope the C-series performs as published.
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Old 01-26-2009 | 08:20 AM
  #105  
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From: MadDog gear slinger
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Lets just hope the C-series performs as published.
And stays under the mainline umbrella!

Smells like scope.
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Old 01-26-2009 | 08:31 AM
  #106  
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Yep, and with over 76 seats it will be your first command chair at DAL. I just hope we do not sell it out for a few bucks an hr.
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Old 01-26-2009 | 09:00 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I just hope we do not sell it out for a few bucks an hr.
That was my point. I fly with quite a few captains that point to the E-170's and call them Moak-Jets. A lost opportunity.
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Old 01-26-2009 | 09:05 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Yep, and with over 76 seats it will be your first command chair at DAL. I just hope we do not sell it out for a few bucks an hr.
Well ALPA's history has not been good on that front. That is one reason I trust Lee Moak. He has fought for the most junior among us. I don't think he will sell out the bottom to give the top a pay raise. You know though, there will be howls and machinations over "Restoration" and demands for pay raises from the top. It's hard to care about the future past your own retirement. ALPA National, IMHO, will not exert too much pressure to keep the 100 seaters at mainline. Since they represent most of the RJs now they will get thiers no matter what.
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Old 01-26-2009 | 09:13 AM
  #109  
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I hope you are wrong. People need to realize that we are where we are because of what we were willing to give up in the past.

Hey the other way to make it a top to bottom list is to give all of our flying to DCI and then go to the bottom of their list!! (TIC)
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Old 01-26-2009 | 09:16 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by satchip
Well ALPA's history has not been good on that front. That is one reason I trust Lee Moak. He has fought for the most junior among us. I don't think he will sell out the bottom to give the top a pay raise. You know though, there will be howls and machinations over "Restoration" and demands for pay raises from the top. It's hard to care about the future past your own retirement. ALPA National, IMHO, will not exert too much pressure to keep the 100 seaters at mainline. Since they represent most of the RJs now they will get thiers no matter what.
Which is why we ALL need to make it a HUGE ISSUE. This should be one of the primary issues to ALL of us. Scope = jobs, upgrades, better schedules and career earnings and should none of those should EVER be given up.
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