Carl Spackler

Think about what you've just said. Here is the translation: "Until there's another way to get qualified for the job I so earnestly want, I'll continue to work for far less which undercuts the very profession that I so desperately want." Sorry that makes me sound like an a-hole to you...but it's the truth. And the reason you're irritated is: you know it's the truth.

Yes...I accepted this one year hit given that the rest of the years would see me paid at a proper rate. That was part of the deal. Again I ask you: when do YOUR rates move up to a proper rate? I understand you trying to compare my first year pay with your decision to accept your indefinite status quo, but are you sure you want to make that comparison?

That's great. But now you ARE undercutting the position you hope to attain.

Until you see that what you're doing is not a viable alternative, your dream will continue to be unrealized. And so will the dream of many other young aviators.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Most military committments are now 8 to 10 years - up from 6 years when I began. Competition is no tougher now than it was back then.

Regardless of your opinion of military aviation, it's best suited for all kinds of careers - not just the continuation of a military career. You spend your time honorably defending the greatest nation on Earth, and you don't undercut another profession by doing so.

Carl

Rhino Driver

Interesting. I went into the military with a plan to get out and get hired by a major. What you don't understand, is that right about the 12 year mark, most military aviators are required to come out of the cockpit and go do some type of disassociated tour of duty.

Would you stay at your regional if you were forced to go into...say management and stop flying? Probably not.

Most are staying in simply because it's scary out here right now. The industry has been in turmoil for years and the economy has tanked, as we're all aware of. The most recent hiring boom may have had more guys coming to the majors from the regionals instead of the military, but that will change once the world is back to normal. 8 years is a really long time, especially if the majority of that time is spent away from your family and out of the cockpit!

JungleBus

So just to summarize Carl's point: anybody who didn't go the military route is ruining the profession. Which means he looks down on around 75% of DAL newhires. Got it.

(guess my <20/20 uncorrected vision made me an undercutter from the word go)

finis72

Where did you get this comment from? Carl didn't say that.Relax,take a deep breath and realize it doesn't matter where you come from,what matters is what you do once you get here.We're all brothers in arms now with common enemies and it ain't us.

RoughLandings

No, on that you are wrong. I am trying to stop a war before it starts. I am all for hearing about your ideas for our profession. What I am saying is that this is not the place for a Rep./Dem. flame war. You have all of 3 posts on this site, of which 2 are dedicated to politically charged rants.

It is a good way to get banned right from the start here...

RoughLandings

They do pay more, since they make more money and dues are paid as a flat percentage of wage, right?

IC ALL

Mod note:

The TOS does not allow for political discussion at the forums. Those of you who would like such a forum should PM HSLD, however, at the moment these sorts of posts will be removed.

X Rated

This similar logic was used by the APA in the AA/TWA integration. Now, was that fair?

There's legislation in place to deal with this--and in many cases it goes right back to ALPA merger policy and arbitration. You can thank AMR for this.

The only way I think a major carrier will get away with absorbing a "regional" is by a) giving longevity to the regional pilots and b) giving at least relative seniority to the regional pilots--you might be able to give them relative seniority on the F/O list at the larger carrier (i.e, the #1 captain at the regional gets close to his bidding position as an F/O on the integrated list).

Few of the mainline F/O's are going to like this. A few regional captain's may not like this either. IMHO, this will be as close as you can get to a reasonable "staple." And the first integration to be tried--especially in an ALPA to ALPA situation--will be the landmark. You want the flying back, be prepared to set the tone. This could be the proverbial "mine field" for ALPA.

X

johnso29

TWA was flying aircraft ranging in size from DC9s to 747s. The career expectations and career earnings for those folks at TWA were FAR greater then any Regional can provide.

I agree the TWA group got the shaft(HARD), but there is NO comparison between the two.


P.S. I miss seeing good ole TWA coming into and out of STL. I loved hearing the 3 holers screaming in for 12L/30R.