Originally Posted by Joemerchant

1. "That's the way this industry works".....OK is that the way it should work? Are we going to just throw out pilots past experience because they work for another carrier? Do any other professions flush past experience down the toilet like we do? Maybe we aren't doing things the best way we could...

2. So we have to simply live with the "hand we are dealt"...? Career expectations boil down to "luck"? Is that in the ALPA merger policy? I can't find it....maybe you can point it out....

3. His career expectations at ASA are now 76 seats....They were 30 seats when he left the first time....Those 76 seats are threatened by his fellow "brothers"....

4. Looks like you are a Northwest pilot....Riddle me this Batman....You have pilots at Northwest (now Delta) who hired on as Metro pilots with Southern....They flew 19 seat turbo-props and the biggest airplane they had at the time was the DC-9....Now they are Delta pilots without having ever applied or interviewed anywhere else....What are their "career expectations"?

Starting to see the problem with your "plain and simple" yet?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Joe,

Yes, to some degree that is how it works. Some bankers went to work for Lehman Brothers and some went to work for Goldman. You live with the choices you make. It is not within a union's ability to equalize everyone, although they might try.

ALPA merger policy recognizes the status quo and seeks to preserve it to avoid windfalls.

Even you must admit a job at Gulfstream paying for BE1900 time is not the same as your job. Should a senior Gulfstream guy leap frog you?

Again, was he one of "those" Eastern pilots. There were a handful of them at ASA. If so, his career did not follow a typical path to say the least.

Originally Posted by johnso29

There's NO problem with the "plain & simple". Yes, that's the way it HAS ALWAYS worked, & anyone in this career KNEW that when they started.

Originally Posted by johnso29

I deal with the cards I'm dealt with everyday. That's what we call "Life". It's not "all luck", it's life.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Those 76 seaters were given to ASA by mainline, and can be taken away. That's what happens when you contract. It happens in other fields too. Those who aren't willing to move on take the risk of staying.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Ever heard of the Republic/Northwest merger Riddler? 20 year fences around the WBs because Republic pilots didn't have them? Ring a bell at all?

It's plain & simple.

Originally Posted by Joemerchant

Were the Bandits, Brasilias, and Twin Otters also "given to ASA by mainline"? Or was that flying "sold" because the ego's of big airplane pilots were too big to fly "little" airplanes....

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Well good. Glad to hear it. Still, I think he'd be mortified to know he was being discussed on a web board.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

You admit DOH is not the way to go, but you don't like staples either. Compass is a completely different case than ASA and we are already in "seniority" order. If it worked, those guys will be on a seniority rocket ride starting about 2011, or so.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Yes, "how it works" does equate. People expect the status quo. You just don't want it to work out because if the wholly owned's got on board, you'd possibly be left out.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

The Bandits to the 105 seat Avro's were flown under ASA code, with ASA marketing.

Delta acquired your code when they bought your airline. They did not sell your code when they sold your airline. Hmmm, that must mean Delta still owns the code Delta bought.

Originally Posted by Joemerchant

Ahhh...the old "I walked uphill in the snow barefoot each way...therefor you have to also" argument....Always loved that one.....

...as do I...I am dealing with my cards as are you....We will see who has the winning hand.....Heck of a way to run a "union" however....

Were the Bandits, Brasilias, and Twin Otters also "given to ASA by mainline"? Or was that flying "sold" because the ego's of big airplane pilots were too big to fly "little" airplanes....
If they can be "taken away" by mainline...why weren't they when Delta furloughed?

Those who move on also take on the risk of moving on....There are risks with each decision....You need to accept the risk you made......

Yes I have heard of and read that merger agreement...First of all it created animosity amongst fellow Northwest pilots for years...Second it has now expired and those Metro pilots are now able to hold widebody positions...something that wasn't within their "career expectations"....
It's plain and simple in your mind....and only there.....

Originally Posted by Joemerchant

Not correct....The bandits I flew, and the BAE 146s were flown and marketed as Delta flights on Delta ticket stock...In fact the Delta MEC filed a grievance against the 146 flying....One of 3 they filed against their "brothers" at ASA and CMR....Heck of a way to build a "brotherhood"...

Originally Posted by johnso29

Yes, if you want the job, you have to make the same sacrafices. It's sounds to me like you want the Mainline seat, but you don't want to make the sacrafice. That's your decision. You say you want to award time & experience, but you knew how the industry worked when you started, therefore you have no room to complain.
I cannot comment on the t-props, because that was before my time.

Originally Posted by johnso29

I accept the risk I've taken, otherwise I wouldn't be where I'm at. Do you accept the risk you took staying? Any company could cease to exist one day.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Yup, the WBs are available to the Greenbook guys now. But only after ALL the Redbook Guys got on in front of them. Their career expectations @ the time of the merger did not include WB flying, & that's why they had to wait so long to get it. They didn't expect it when they were hired at Republic, so why should they have gotten it with the merger?

Originally Posted by johnso29

If you want a Mainline job, you have to make the sacrafices that all the other mainline pilots do. If you're unwilling, then you cannot expect a Mainline career.