I believe this discourse is the beginning of what could and should happen. ALPA has lost is way and represents regional and not mainline interests. It certainly does not have Delta and Delta only as its focus which a 12,500 pilot strong in-house union would. It's time to stand up and represent ourselves, ALPA clearly is not doing so.

 

Don't cloud this issue with flight attendants. Their issues may parallel ours in some cases but they do not have our interests at heart.

 

This is an inevitable result of ALPA creating SCOPE clauses and yet wanting to represent those same groups who were being restricted. We don't want to see restrictions at DAL to our flying and neither do they. ALPA cannot represent two conflicting interests. One could argue that airlines that are served by their union have their interests only at heart and do better - SWA, AMR, etc.

ALPA has done much good over its history. However, it seems to have become prostrate by politics and views that are not shared by its majority. One problem with going independent is political leverage. One of the reasons that Clinton invoked the PEB on APA was that they were a small independent union. When NWA struck a little over a year later they were able to remain on strike because Clinton didn't want to incur the ire of the AFL/CIO who is a major supporter of the democratic party. We would never be able to match the ALPA PAC support of political parties as an independent union so our fight when it came to politics could be harder.

One thing is clear, we may be leading the charge on forcing ALPA to define itself and its pilot groups. Failure to do this may in fact make it more compelling to going alone.

 

I do not see how the above is true. "Flow-up/flow-back" agreements have nearly always worked better at letting mainliners flow back to regional jobs in lean times than letting regional pilots move up to the mainline in good times. Regional pilots may outnumber mainliners, but the mainliners probably pay a larger share of the dues received. So long as this is true, mainline pilots will have the lion's share of the influence in ALPA.

I think a move in a much different direction is required. A national contract with one rate of pay per aircraft type or size and matching work rules would allow pilots to stop competing with each other to see who can fly for less pay and less time off. This will not occur if our profession fragments into nothing more than one employer unions. Additionally, a bunch of smaller unions will have less ability to influence the political process.

 

AHHHH! I'm so tired of this NSL crap. If you want to have a NSL, go have it amongst the regional carriers. NO ONE at a mainline carrier will ever back a NSL. Falling on deaf ears...again...again....again...AGAIN!

This is not a good idea. Never has been, never will be.

 

Oh really...Look who proposed it at the last ALPA BOD....None other than the United MEC....Amazing what mortality does.....




SUBJECT
National Seniority Protocol

SOURCE
UAL MEC

BACKGROUND INFORMATION
See proposed resolution.

PROPOSED RESOLUTION
WHEREAS the Air Line Pilots Association has been at the forefront of pilot labor representation in the airline industry since 1931, and has consistently been the champion of safety protocols that assure our passengers have the safest transportation system possible, and

WHEREAS the 77 year history of ALPA is replete with examples of bold decisions made by ALPA leaders in order to assure that measures, necessary to protect the economic bargaining rights and professional interests of its members, have been instituted and that the best interests of the profession have been secured, and,

WHEREAS opportunities to make significant and enduring policy changes that enhance the professional opportunities of every ALPA member come along rarely and are often precipitated by industry destabilizing events like those brought to bear on ALPA members with The Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, the September 11th acts of war, the bankruptcy era, and the current manipulated inflation of the price of petroleum, and

WHEREAS the most unfulfilled professional benefit, recognized by all airline pilots and by ALPA members specifically, is the lack of a policy, derived from fundamental union principals, that enables and enforces the individual members’ ability to transfer their seniority, longevity, and operational experience as professionals from one airline employer to another, thereby allowing a manipulation of their entire career path by the actions of the very same capitalist cabal whose fundamental goal is to limit, degrade and minimize the essential role of pilots to the airline industry, and

WHEREAS parochial company loyalty, historically embraced by ALPA pioneers of previous eras, has been perverted and used against ALPA members as a capitalist leveraging tool that stifles the inherent right of professional pilots to collectively negotiate an economically sound and stable ratio of pay and work rules for identical job responsibilities using the continual underlying threat of losing the earned seniority benefits derived from their professional longevity at a particular airline while being compared to the economics of another airline (whipsawing), and

WHEREAS the fundamental principal of national seniority does not conflict with the current or future job prospects of pilots but instead extends a common system of advancement to be used at every ALPA carrier and bonds all ALPA pilots to the profession instead of to an individual airline; a national seniority list would assure a logical and rational adherence to a measurable, protected status of those pilots from a commonly defined starting point in their professional careers regardless of how many airlines may exist, regardless of the skill and economic acumen of the managements that run them, and regardless of the transient political influence of the day, and

WHEREAS the career security of any pilot who was able to transfer his seniority to another air carrier would liberate ALPA pilots and forever eliminate the ability of management to whipsaw or erode ALPA unity based on loss of job threats, economic fear or arbitrary merger awards, based on a perceived surviving carrier analogy, thus enabling ALPA to negotiate wages and work rules at all airlines based on the pilots’ collective evaluation of their true contribution and economic value to an air carrier,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Executive Board acknowledges this historic and momentous opportunity in time when several key air carrier contract amendable dates are so closely aligned, and which could be coordinated as part of this undertaking, that will launch a historic, new career security protocol for all ALPA pilots and by design, realign the true interests and career expectations of every pilot represented by ALPA both now and in the future, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the development of a national seniority protocol be assigned to a select National Seniority Committee (NSC) consisting of the President of ALPA; one pilot from each represented pilot group within group A, to be appointed by the Master Chairman of each MEC of the group; and one pilot representing each group designation: B1, B2, B3, B4 and C, each of whom shall be appointed by a consensus of the MEC Master Chairmen from each of the pilot groups represented within a classification; for a total of 11 members, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the National Seniority Committee will establish a single national seniority protocol that will be used to establish two separate lists reflecting the Canadian ALPA pilots and the United States ALPA pilots, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the protocol for an ALPA national seniority list will be developed by the NSC under a rigid timeline with a specific date for completion in 2009, and using a simple and transparent methodology that defines a starting point common to all professional air line pilots from which all seniority benefits and longevity will derive, and,

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that without discrimination to any pilot, the NSC will set and fix a methodology recognizing “benchmarks of career achievement” with associated “exercise rights” in order to minimize unrealistic windfalls/detriments to any pilot unless and until those common benchmarks have been met, regardless of whether the benchmarks have been achieved at an ALPA carrier or not, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that upon completion of the protocol, the NSC will present a single, unified explanation of the developed protocol to all ALPA members, and all other represented professional pilot groups, using all available communication tools before preferably submitting the NSC proposal for ALPA-wide membership ratification, Roll Call by the governing body, or the applicable rules as stipulated in the ALPA Constitution and By Laws, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that upon adoption as ALPA policy by the proper authorizing internal ALPA mechanisms, the national seniority protocol will be enforced as of that date and no ALPA Collective Bargaining Agreement will be signed by the President of the Association without full inclusion of this policy as a part thereof.

 

I wonder why NOW from United? Things have to be really bad there.
fbh

 

Well when you are perpetually on the verge of extinction,,,those TEDS can look forward to transition to the 11 at FDX

 

Same reason people find religion when they are on their death bed....This so-called union is so predictable....Mainline pilots hate single seniority lists and RJs until they lose their jobs....Then they find "religion".....

 

I guess anyone can submit a resolution. Bottom line, I don't work for ALPA and by the tone of these forums, pretty soon the only ALPA pilots will be regional guys.

I've said this before. I work for airline A and you work for airline B. Although I will do anything in my power to help you along your career, airline B is still my competitor! I really want A to be better than B. This is the inherent problem with ALPA. It's a contradiction. ALPA CAN NOT realistically support both major and regional pilots. That's why each airline has their own MEC. We both want different things...maybe the same in the end, but not now.

If you want a NSL, I suggest you go to the regional forum and start by getting all of them on the same sheet of music. You are the ones being whipsawed back and forth by the way.